Religion and choice
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07-03-2017, 09:57 PM
RE: Religion and choice
OK I see, thanks Smile

This is a general comment:

I understand being thankful. It's a good thing. Appreciating what you've got is important.

However, if you're thanking a specific being, which you are crediting for looking after you and making you happy, then you're crediting the same being that is not looking after many of your fellow humans. All over the world, people starve and die of horrible diseases. Why exactly is this being only looking after some people?

It would be the equivalent of my parents feeding me, but not my brothers. Am I thankful for my food, as I watch my brothers starve? No. I would call my parents monsters. Feed all of us, what's your problem! Or if you have limited resources, share it out equally.

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08-03-2017, 12:27 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Robvalue Wrote:However, if you're thanking a specific being, which you are crediting for looking after you and making you happy, then you're crediting the same being that is not looking after many of your fellow humans. All over the world, people starve and die of horrible diseases. Why exactly is this being only looking after some people?
I don't believe that our Heavenly Father is looking only after some people. If you noticed I am not one of those Christians who constantly quote scriptures. But once in a blue moon I like to quote a verse or two. It says in the scripture that it rains on heads of all of His children and sun is shining to all of us.
I believe that Heavenly Father watches over all of us. He lets good and bad to happen to all of us.

But we can choose to make covenants with Him. We can choose to ask Him questions.
Covenant is agreement when both sides make to each other promises. I promise something to God He promises something to me.
I can say that it is a privilege to be able to make a covenant with God. But with this comes responsibility and accountability.

Yes, there are many people who suffer in this world. But making covenant with God doesn't prevent me from suffering. And opposite, if you don't make a covenant with God it doesn't prevent you from having relatively great life.
I am covenant with God, you are not, but we both suffer in this life and we both have many, many blessings. Only they are not the same. Because you and I are not the same and our needs are not the same.

So, could you, please share with me the info? What is scientific explanation for ability to know right and wrong? I would like to know.

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08-03-2017, 01:04 AM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2017 01:11 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Religion and choice
Indeed, my comment was a general one and not aimed at you. I appreciate you have a very different outlook to most theists. I would say though that if you're born with a horrible disease and die quickly, or you starve to death, anyone "looking out for you" is not actually doing very much.

Oh sorry, yes! I forgot that part Smile I'll give a quick overview.

As humans evolved, it became the case that working together was an advantage for survival. Hunting was easier, sharing resources proved better than fighting for them, people could protect each other and eventually hunter/gatherer societies emerged.

Anyone who helped out as part of a group did better than someone who tried to go it alone. So out of the random variations/mutations people were born with, anything which made a person very slightly better at cooperating was going to become prevalent. Such people would survive for longer and breed more. It happened over millions of generations, with all these tiny changes eventually adding up to a significant change. This is how evolution works in general, for any trait which offers a survival advantage.

So imagine the effect of "successful cooperation" over a very long time period. To cooperate, you have to value other humans, and not just yourself. So a natural inclination to help rather than hurt will snowball from primitive cooperation into empathy. Successful humans cared about each other. So anyone who naturally had a good feeling when aiding others would do better.

The same is true of any animal which has evolved cooperatively. They value each other. By contrast, any animal that has historically done better surviving alone will not favour such inclinations, and as such won't develop any positive feelings about other members of its species.

I hope that made sense! Any resident experts on evolution are welcome to correct me on any points.

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08-03-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Also:

Through natural selection, you're dealing with averages/norms being nudged. So you'd fully expect to see varying individual morality, and subjective cultural morality. This fits with reality far better than a single being supposedly imprinting some sort of morality onto everyone, yet ending up with hap-hazard results (and in some cases, skipping people altogether).

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09-03-2017, 11:00 PM
RE: Religion and choice
Thank you, Rob
It is a pleasure to talk to you. Smile

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09-03-2017, 11:22 PM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 05:27 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Why is it that almost every person who believes a religion is "true" chooses to be a part of that religion?


I can concede all of them have a grain of truth without ascribing to any.

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble." - Joseph Campbell

#sigh
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10-03-2017, 12:07 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 02:14 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  But yes, western civilization is now lost without any alpha-male gods, so it is suffering from the terminal cultural illnesses of liberalism and feminism.

You sure do bring this up a lot. Wife stepping out on you? Limp dick caught up with you? Women find you repulsive? Can't get laid? Gotta be something to twist your panties in such a bunch.

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10-03-2017, 12:15 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(06-03-2017 01:40 PM)Alla Wrote:  When atheist Rob loves and serves people, Rob serves His God in whom he doesn't believe. Rob serves God he doesn't know.

Universal reconciliationists can be an irritating bunch. "You get over here right now young man. You're going to heaven whether you like it or not even if I have to take you kicking and screaming."

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10-03-2017, 02:21 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(09-03-2017 11:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  Thank you, Rob
It is a pleasure to talk to you. Smile

You're welcome, you too Smile

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10-03-2017, 05:13 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(09-03-2017 11:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I can concede all of them have a grain of truth without ascribing to any.

All good lies have a grain of truth.
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