Religion and choice
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02-03-2017, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 09:41 AM by Alla.)
RE: Religion and choice
Robvalue Wrote:But it makes me sad that you would go and worship it, and join a cult based around how great it is. Why? You've gone further than believing this stuff God supposedly does. You're validating it.


This is very good question. The best part is that this is genuine question.
I don't mind to answer.

But first I want you tell me why you say this: "I find the concept of worship to be grotesque"?
Thank you, if you answer

English is my second language.
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02-03-2017, 09:38 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 09:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ----
"For many are called but few are *chosen*"
"No one shall come to me UNLESS the Father draw him".

This is nearly the same switch that goes on in the brain for anything from harmless fanaticism to obsessive stalking and of course, the ultimate in worship: sacrifice.

The making of a murderer - it's all there just under the skin, waiting to be coaxed out and cajoled into service. Angel

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-03-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 08:11 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  One of the things that really didn't sit right with me when I was religious, was if there's only one true religion, what about the people who weren't lucky enough to have been born in it?

That reminds me of a joke. A missionary walks up to an Eskimo and says, "Unless you believe in Jesus, you will be thrown into hell when you die!'

The Eskimo thinks for a minute then says, "But what if I had never heard about Jesus?"

The missionary answered, "God is merciful. If you had never heard of Jesus, you would not go to hell."

The Eskimo frowned and said, "Then why did you tell me?"

Big Grin
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02-03-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Let's pretend you told me that you fluently speak 20 different languages and you told me that I also can fluently speak 20 languages.
Really? I can fluently speak 20 languages? Get out of here ( this is what they in the USA but it doesn't mean that you have to leave literally, it doesn't mean to offend you)
L
But let's pretend that I BELIEVE you. I will say more, I WANT to speak 20 languages fluently.
What is next? Should I just BELIEVE that I can do it?
What good will come out of my "just belief"?

English is my second language.
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02-03-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 09:33 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:But it makes me sad that you would go and worship it, and join a cult based around how great it is. Why? You've gone further than believing this stuff God supposedly does. You're validating it.


This is very good question. The best part is that this is genuine question.
I don't mind to answer.

But first I want you tell me why you say this: "I find the concept of worship to be grotesque"?
Thank you, if you answer

Sure.

I think it's demeaning to be the one worshiping someone. It's giving up your dignity, and just throwing yourself on the ground in front of the most impressive looking thing you can find in order to try and get better treatment. Arse licking.

And it's incredibly pointless from the other perspective. An amazing being, so great people fall over themselves to praise it, would get nothing out of it. And if it actually expects or demands it, then it's not great at all but just egotistical. If it rewards people for being toadies, it's remarkably human and not in any way great.

To me, it's about having respect for yourself. I'm completely against divisions which state that one being is "better" than another. I find that morally repulsive.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-03-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 09:55 AM)Alla Wrote:  Let's pretend you told me that you fluently speak 20 different languages and you told me that I also can fluently speak 20 languages.
Really? I can fluently speak 20 languages? Get out of here ( this is what they in the USA but it doesn't mean that you have to leave literally, it doesn't mean to offend you)
L
But let's pretend that I BELIEVE you. I will say more, I WANT to speak 20 languages fluently.
What is next? Should I just BELIEVE that I can do it?
What good will come out of my "just belief"?

I have no idea what relevance this has.

If you want to speak them, you go learn how to.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-03-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 07:14 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  As humans, we like to talk.
We gather. We listen. We add our two cents.
It's in our nature.

I agree with this.

Much the same reason we joined an Atheist forum (not saying we worship anything by any means). But people that are religious and belong to a certain religious group are going to want to be around other like minded individuals. Much the same reason I joined this forum. I have a great desire to learn, to bounce ideas off each other, and honestly to be around others that are very similar to me. This, of course, doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that is posted on here nor do you have to agree with me. But that's one of the things that makes a place like this special in my opinion. I tend to think we all share "similar" views and therefore we congregate each day to see what each other is thinking about a particular subject. From the mundane to the serious.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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02-03-2017, 10:22 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Robvalue Wrote:I have no idea what relevance this has.
I will tell you.
I didn't know that it was possible that someone has ability to speak fluently 20 different languages until you told me that you do. This is why I have never even set a goal to learn 20 languages.
Now when you told me that you fluently speak 20 languages, that it is possible to do I BELIEVE you and I WANT to do what you can do.
THE POINT IS that if I ONLY BELIEVE you I am not going to learn anything.
The only way for me to speak fluently 20 languages like you do is:
1)TO BELIEVE it is possible
2) TO ACT according to my belief.

It is not enough for me to just believe in God. Belief in God alone is dead thing meaning it is useless, worthless.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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02-03-2017, 10:33 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 09:55 AM)Alla Wrote:  Let's pretend you told me that you fluently speak 20 different languages and you told me that I also can fluently speak 20 languages.
Really? I can fluently speak 20 languages? Get out of here ( this is what they in the USA but it doesn't mean that you have to leave literally, it doesn't mean to offend you)
L
But let's pretend that I BELIEVE you. I will say more, I WANT to speak 20 languages fluently.
What is next? Should I just BELIEVE that I can do it?
What good will come out of my "just belief"?


You are saying that just believing can't be enough and that one has to work at it - and rightly so.

But what if such work might also do harm - if not physical then at least, psychological? Consider Or possibly physical harm, in the long run ...?
***

Suppose you worked and studied, spent money to take classes for 40 years to learn to speak 20 different languages. Suppose your study and these classes provided you with certificates to teach others.

But you one day find that you still aren't really, completely fluent in all these languages. It is very possible you wouldn't even know this unless and until, someone came along you couldn't understand, even though you had studied their language.

Though your integrity as a teacher of this language (and possibly others) is diminished, would you continue to teach? Maybe you've been studying incorrect things in all 20 languages all along - for 40 years? Suppose you taught your students incorrect things? Have you taught your students to incorrectly communicate? Incorrect communication can indeed, cause harm and knowing this, would you continue to teach?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-03-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Robvalue Wrote:I think it's demeaning to be the one worshiping someone. It's giving up your dignity, and just throwing yourself on the ground in front of the most impressive looking thing you can find in order to try and get better treatment. Arse licking.

Robvalue Wrote:And it's incredibly pointless from the other perspective. An amazing being, so great people fall over themselves to praise it, would get nothing out of it. And if it actually expects or demands it, then it's not great at all but just egotistical. If it rewards people for being toadies, it's remarkably human and not in any way great.

Robvalue Wrote:To me, it's about having respect for yourself. I'm completely against divisions which state that one being is "better" than another. I find that morally repulsive.
Oh, Ok.
But what if I tell you that to worship God means TO SERVE GOD.
What do you have against serving those whom you love?
What do you have against service and serving others? do you find it morally repulsive? having disrespect for yourself? giving up your dignity, perhaps?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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