Religion and choice
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-03-2017, 12:16 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 12:21 PM by kim.)
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 11:39 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:Do you place yourself below God, to submit, or are you on the "same level"?
I am a child of God. He is my Father.
Is little child below a parent? If yes, is this morally repulsive? is this disrespect to yourself? does child have to give up his/her dignity?
Is little child submit himself/herself to a parent? If yes, the same questions.
are they(little child and a parent) on the same level?

So, is it morally repulsive to adore a parent? is it morally repulsive to have feeling of reverence to a parent? and to express reverence to a parent? If yes, why?

It is morally reprehensible to not provide a child with the means with which to know and appreciate the world outside the parent/child relationship.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that, it is disrespectful of both the child and the parent to regard each other in the context of a superiority/inferiority dynamic.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kim's post
02-03-2017, 12:41 PM
RE: Religion and choice
kim Wrote:It is morally reprehensible to not provide a child with the means with which to know and appreciate the world outside the parent/child relationship.
I am not sure I understood what you are saying. But I want to understand.


kim Wrote:In fact, I would go as far as saying that, it is disrespectful of both the child and the parent to regard each other in the context of a superiority/inferiority dynamic.
Why? Please, explain.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2017, 12:45 PM
RE: Religion and choice
Impulse Wrote:If said parent is guilty of or condones murder, rape, slavery, cannibalism, incest, sexual slavery, stoning, and countless other atrocities and you still adore and revere that parent, then yes it's repulsive. Very much so.
I agree.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Alla's post
02-03-2017, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 01:38 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 10:07 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I think it's demeaning to be the one worshiping someone.

The reasoning from the theists who I have run into goes like this: Everyone worships someone or something, so it makes sense to worship what is really worthy of worship -- God. Usually such a statement is followed by the accusation that atheists really worship themselves.

The most reasonable translation I can make of this reasoning is that everyone has some idol of the tribe, some value or concept which they consider paramount, and that the worship of God replaces such idol worship for the theist. That could be considered the original meaning of monotheism. Of course that is really in theory only, because usually theists are also idolators of all sorts of other things -- sacred people, books, places and so on -- so they are really polytheists by that standard.

However my conclusion is like yours, that one doesn't have to worship anything at all. Ideas can and should be provisional and qualified rather than idolized. So yes, worship is not a psychologically useful concept.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thoreauvian's post
02-03-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Religion and choice
FullCircle, that's it in a nutshell. It just isn't FAIR. And if I (and I'm not even an especially good person. Actually, I'm neither good or bad, just useless) think it's unfair, no almighty deity can be blind to the fact of just how plain wrong it is.

Yeah, people try to explain it away, by saying those who were born before would be automatically saved or something, but it just doesn't make sense.

[Image: 2dab15122836c54f36410274528b52f4.jpg]

And that's before we come to the rest of life on earth. I always give the example of that brain-eating fungus, but it doesn't even have to be something this extreme - life everywhere is a constant struggle for survival, full of pain and suffering, and cruelty (and a lot of beauty, yes, but it doesn't negate the suffering)









In what brainwashed, tortured brain is this degree of suffering not only acceptable but excusable, because a broad once had a hankering for some apples? (and yeah, I do think that for good people it is torture trying to reconcile such things with the idea of a benevolent god, no matter whether they do it consciously or - more often than not - subconsciously)

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vera's post
02-03-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Religion and choice
(02-03-2017 05:27 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Of course, I know why, on the whole. Indoctrination. Fear. Social pressure. But it seems to me that people have rarely considered that they have a choice. Even if they think the Bible is "true", they don't have to be a Christian. If they think the Quran is "true", they don't have to be a Muslim. But instead, they almost all do, and spend the whole time making up excuses for why God is so incompetent and sadistic, just as with Stockholm Syndrome. Almost all apologetics, when not trying to prove religious texts to be true, sounds like a battered spouse to me: excusing the actions of their violent, crazy partner.

How can they be battered spouses if the being doing the battering doesn't exist? I don't think I understand the reasoning behind a common argument made here, regarding Stockholm syndrome.

Do you find your own life cruel, and miserable?

Let you say your find you life as pretty happy, content, optimistic, hopeful, good. And let say you run across a theist whose life is also pretty happy, content, optimistic and hopeful, how is he akin to a battered wife just by believing in God, or a victim of stockholm syndrome?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Religion and choice
When I believed in God, I felt like worship was identical to my experience of awe and wonder at the beauty of nature. Worship, for me, always meant *attempting* to tap into this wonder experience on-demand.

I think there is a degree of humility in it that isn't de-humanizing. I love spending time in the mountains, because I think the mountains reveal our size in a way that feels terrifying and calming at the same time. In everyday life, it's easy to get caught up in my own opinions and ambitions and think I'm really Something. Learning, in those moments of awe and wonder, that I'm actually quite small and insignificant (and it's okay), brings me closer to a taste of actual freedom than anything else.

This is what I used to believe I could drum up by "worshipping God" in church. Nowadays, I understand that the awe and wonder I felt in church, on occasion, was because of the other humans there with me. Some of them were models of love and charity and they were my second family. Our shared experience of "worship" helped strengthen our relationship.

So I think that's my answer to your original question, Robvalue, which echoes other comments. We joined the cult for the community.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes port_of_call's post
03-03-2017, 12:18 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Thank you, that does make sense Smile

I agree with you, I often "zoom out" and check myself (and the whole human race) against the scale of both the earth, and reality as a whole. I remember how cosmically insignificant we are. I wonder at the scale of things, and how every life form interacts in bizarre ways, mostly going unnoticed. I consider this a healthy thing to do. Humility is important.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Robvalue's post
03-03-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-03-2017, 07:26 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: