Religion and choice
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03-03-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Someone once told me they'd rather be tortured forever in hell than stop existing.

Probably after about 5 minutes they'd be wanting a mulligan.

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03-03-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 10:14 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Someone once told me they'd rather be tortured forever in hell than stop existing.

Probably after about 5 minutes they'd be wanting a mulligan.

It's easy to say so idiots say this. Reality looks different though. Here's the quote courtesy of Varlam Shalamov, GULag prisoner:

There is a much that a man should not see, should not know, and if he should see it, it is better for him to die.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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03-03-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 09:08 AM)Alla Wrote:  According to LDS doctrine, and to the Bible, we are to thank God for everything, not only for good.
I am grateful that I have hard times in my life. I am grateful that there is evil in my life.
If there was no evil I wouldn't be able to learn how to overcome evil

Also, how do you tell a good god apart from an evil one, if he just wins whatever happens?

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03-03-2017, 10:38 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 10:06 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  They do teach us things, yeah. But those are things that are useful within the context of a fucked up world with us making the best of it. We wouldn't need to learn any of those things if the environment was properly sorted out in the first place.

Yes and no. There are many things that I'd rather not learn and would prefer a more perfect world. However, if everything was so perfect that all hardships were completely removed, life would be boring. For example, I love to climb mountains. There is nothing immoral about the work that it takes to get to the top so why remove that hardship? The climb and the achievement of reaching the top are quite rewarding. So I guess it all depends on what you mean by hardship.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-03-2017, 10:42 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 10:26 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Also, how do you tell a good god apart from an evil one, if he just wins whatever happens?

Exactly. God gets an automatic free pass. Everything is either ok or, if it looks unacceptable, simply becomes "we just don't understand, but there is a good reason". God could be the most evil being in the entire universe and people would still be on their knees worshiping under the mistaken belief that "we just don't understand".

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-03-2017, 10:44 AM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 10:38 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 10:06 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  They do teach us things, yeah. But those are things that are useful within the context of a fucked up world with us making the best of it. We wouldn't need to learn any of those things if the environment was properly sorted out in the first place.

Yes and no. There are many things that I'd rather not learn and would prefer a more perfect world. However, if everything was so perfect that all hardships were completely removed, life would be boring. For example, I love to climb mountains. There is nothing immoral about the work that it takes to get to the top so why remove that hardship? The climb and the achievement of reaching the top are quite rewarding. So I guess it all depends on what you mean by hardship.

Merriam-Webster define hardship as something that causes or entails suffering or privation or something that causes pain, suffering, or loss so I doubt that effort taken to reach the peak could be called so.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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03-03-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Religion and choice
Sure, it could be set up so that you could introduce as much hardship as you wanted, but that none would be put upon you without request.

Here's my thoughts on the problem of evil:





And now a brand new video I just recorded for you guys! This is an aspect of the topic which I realised I had overlooked.




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03-03-2017, 12:41 PM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 09:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  But there are no Shart-Goblins on this world Alla? How un-thoughtful of God. Now you will never know how to overcome a Shart-Goblin.
True.
I will never know how to overcome many things. But this is not why I am here. I am not here to overcome every obstacle. I am here to learn to overcome any obstacle I can not avoid. I am also here to learn how to avoid any obstacle that can be avoidable.
Different people have different obstacles.

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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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03-03-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: Religion and choice
Impulse Wrote:If there was no evil then you would have nothing to overcome so there would be no need to learn how to do so.
True. But because there is evil we MUST to learn how to overcome and to avoid it.

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03-03-2017, 12:59 PM
RE: Religion and choice
(03-03-2017 12:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Impulse Wrote:If there was no evil then you would have nothing to overcome so there would be no need to learn how to do so.
True. But because there is evil we MUST to learn how to overcome and to avoid it.
You stated that the reason you are grateful for evil is that otherwise you wouldn't be able to learn to overcome it. My point was your reason for finding some "good" in evil depends on evil existing in the first place. For there to truly be anything good about something, the reason should be independent of the something itself. Otherwise, it's only a way of finding a silver lining.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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