Religion and climate change
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13-05-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Religion and climate change
(13-05-2013 09:57 AM)I and I Wrote:  So the fact that rich fucks don't practice what they preach is not a red flag that should raise questions?

Which rich fucks?

Rich like Koch brothers? I did link it. lazy fuck.

I'm more interested in what the science and evidence says.
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13-05-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Religion and climate change
I&I your grasp on reality is so tenuous I rarely consider it worthwhile to respond to you, but for completeness:

Our carbon dioxide concentration is now at 400 parts per million. This is higher than at any time during the lifetime of our species, and concentrations have not been so high for three million years. We know from basic laws of physics that carbon dioxide levels cause warming by allowing sunlight through on its way to the ground but reflecting longer infrared radiation wavelengths. This allows energy into the system but acts like a blanket for energy escaping the system, and moves the equilibrium temperature higher.

We know that heat energy within our climate system is increasing. We know that most of this heat is going into the oceans and some into the atmosphere. We can see glaciers and even the very poles themselves melting away in front of our eyes. We can isolate other potential causes and show that they are not responsible. We are responsible. Our carbon emissions are responsible. We are running a terraforming experiment on our planet and our best estimates of the effects are that they will be highly negative on our species.

We can act, even now, cheaply to solve this problem. We can drastically reduce new carbon emissions without significant economic impact. The longer we wait the more expensive the transition will be.

Your argument is that some people who care about this issue still use electricity and fly on aeroplanes. The solution here is not for people to stop using electricity or to stop flying on aeroplanes. The solution is to put a price on carbon emissions to ensure that emissions are reduced in the most cost effective manner across the economy. You're holding the tail of an elephant and insisting it is a snake, even when the evidence of your eyes shows plainly what is true.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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14-05-2013, 04:57 AM
RE: Religion and climate change
http://video.pbs.org/video/2334144059
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16-05-2013, 01:07 PM
RE: Religion and climate change
Most of the Christians I've met, who think climate change, pollution, and global warming are pointless concerns, kind of act like this.

Some Dad tells his kids the end is the world will happen any evening and without warning.

His kids grow and go do the same thing to their kids. They believe it and don't bother worrying about pollution and so forth too heavily. They know that God will save their lives and end Earth anyway during their life time. Anyone saying that humans are causing the environments all over the planet to go down hill is seen as a disbelieving liar with an agenda. The person in question must not believe that God will save his creation. The nerve.

Their kids visit the first Dad who is now celebrating his 119th. Despite his aging, he still feels sure that it's going to be the end of the world soon. Why? God will end their world and save his children and all their current troubles will mean nothing.

119 aged guy dies, and his blood line continues to hand down the ideas so that their little kids don't have strong concern but to be comfortable as they age into the 90s up.... and so on.
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18-05-2013, 09:41 AM
Religion and climate change
(13-05-2013 06:02 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I&I your grasp on reality is so tenuous I rarely consider it worthwhile to respond to you, but for completeness:

Our carbon dioxide concentration is now at 400 parts per million. This is higher than at any time during the lifetime of our species, and concentrations have not been so high for three million years. We know from basic laws of physics that carbon dioxide levels cause warming by allowing sunlight through on its way to the ground but reflecting longer infrared radiation wavelengths. This allows energy into the system but acts like a blanket for energy escaping the system, and moves the equilibrium temperature higher.

We know that heat energy within our climate system is increasing. We know that most of this heat is going into the oceans and some into the atmosphere. We can see glaciers and even the very poles themselves melting away in front of our eyes. We can isolate other potential causes and show that they are not responsible. We are responsible. Our carbon emissions are responsible. We are running a terraforming experiment on our planet and our best estimates of the effects are that they will be highly negative on our species.

We can act, even now, cheaply to solve this problem. We can drastically reduce new carbon emissions without significant economic impact. The longer we wait the more expensive the transition will be.

Your argument is that some people who care about this issue still use electricity and fly on aeroplanes. The solution here is not for people to stop using electricity or to stop flying on aeroplanes. The solution is to put a price on carbon emissions to ensure that emissions are reduced in the most cost effective manner across the economy. You're holding the tail of an elephant and insisting it is a snake, even when the evidence of your eyes shows plainly what is true.

I don't know who you are and don't remember ever corresponding with you, but since you threw the first insult between us, go fuck yourself you stupid fuck.
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18-05-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: Religion and climate change
(18-05-2013 09:41 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(13-05-2013 06:02 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  I&I your grasp on reality is so tenuous I rarely consider it worthwhile to respond to you, but for completeness:

Our carbon dioxide concentration is now at 400 parts per million. This is higher than at any time during the lifetime of our species, and concentrations have not been so high for three million years. We know from basic laws of physics that carbon dioxide levels cause warming by allowing sunlight through on its way to the ground but reflecting longer infrared radiation wavelengths. This allows energy into the system but acts like a blanket for energy escaping the system, and moves the equilibrium temperature higher.

We know that heat energy within our climate system is increasing. We know that most of this heat is going into the oceans and some into the atmosphere. We can see glaciers and even the very poles themselves melting away in front of our eyes. We can isolate other potential causes and show that they are not responsible. We are responsible. Our carbon emissions are responsible. We are running a terraforming experiment on our planet and our best estimates of the effects are that they will be highly negative on our species.

We can act, even now, cheaply to solve this problem. We can drastically reduce new carbon emissions without significant economic impact. The longer we wait the more expensive the transition will be.

Your argument is that some people who care about this issue still use electricity and fly on aeroplanes. The solution here is not for people to stop using electricity or to stop flying on aeroplanes. The solution is to put a price on carbon emissions to ensure that emissions are reduced in the most cost effective manner across the economy. You're holding the tail of an elephant and insisting it is a snake, even when the evidence of your eyes shows plainly what is true.

I don't know who you are and don't remember ever corresponding with you, but since you threw the first insult between us, go fuck yourself you stupid fuck.

This. In a nutshell is why you are pathetic and can't be taken seriously.

This is why you should just be ignored. Its now my goal to have that happen untill you dissappear from this forum.

Begone troll.
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18-05-2013, 08:04 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2013 09:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Religion and climate change
edit
wrong thread

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-05-2013, 05:22 PM
Religion and climate change
(18-05-2013 05:15 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(18-05-2013 09:41 AM)I and I Wrote:  I don't know who you are and don't remember ever corresponding with you, but since you threw the first insult between us, go fuck yourself you stupid fuck.

This. In a nutshell is why you are pathetic and can't be taken seriously.

This is why you should just be ignored. Its now my goal to have that happen untill you dissappear from this forum.

Begone troll.

I am a troll because I insulted you back?
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19-05-2013, 06:41 PM
Re: Religion and climate change
I dont believe a carbon tax is in the best interest of the working class, but thats who will be affected the most. The output of carbon from your lawnmower or vehicle is nothing compared to that of a smockstack atop a corporation. A number of corporations already receive tax breaks and that dubious practice wont change if a carbon tax is implemented. It isnt fair to charge us for corporate usage, if anyone should pay a carbon tax, its them. They can use the taxpayer subsidies they are gifted every year from the government to pay it or from the billions in revenue generated from consumers.Not a dime can be withheld from wasted military expenditures, but social security for the elderly can be cut and we should be subjected to even more illegal taxation? The warming and cooling periods experienced on earth is common on other planets, but here its exploited to make a profit.
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20-05-2013, 02:34 AM
RE: Religion and climate change
(13-05-2013 09:57 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 05:38 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  I suspect they sleep quite well at night considering that the vast majority of scientists agree on this topic.

The evidence just keeps piling up.

All thats left now are some bunker dwelling morons, like yourself. Maybe you can team up with the koch brothers. You can be their new lobbyist and push the anti agw agenda.

So the fact that rich fucks don't practice what they preach is not a red flag that should raise questions?

If you watch enough episodes of Grand Designs you'll see folk building sustanable modern homes, that make more energy than they use. The Tesla S out sold Mercedes, BMW last year. So to say they are not changing, like smells like observers simply aren't looking. If anyone isn't it is conservatives. The Koch Brothers spending millions to maintain the illusion of controversy around climate change to keep their refineries running.
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