Religion and the workplace
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10-11-2011, 07:13 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
I'm pretty lucky in the workplace in the position I'm currently in as the boss is an atheist (and a great guy as well) and most of the other workers are agnostic or atheist. There are only two people (I know of) that are theists and they cop it (in fun mostly) when they open their gobs religiously.
I don't push my atheism on others and I expect the same treatment. If they want to have a go, it's ON BABY!!!
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10-11-2011, 07:48 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(10-11-2011 07:13 PM)aurora2020 Wrote:  I'm pretty lucky in the workplace in the position I'm currently in as the boss is an atheist (and a great guy as well) and most of the other workers are agnostic or atheist. There are only two people (I know of) that are theists and they cop it (in fun mostly) when they open their gobs religiously.
I don't push my atheism on others and I expect the same treatment. If they want to have a go, it's ON BABY!!!

I like hearing that kind of stuff.

My recent past, as a resident of Arizona; fuck, they're all Christians! I couldn't deal - I am naive philosopher; in simple terms, I don't talk about "money," or "week-end." I talk about "interesting stuff." Unfortunately, when everyone else was going on about money - I started going on about "killing creationists." Much more moral. Big Grin

It really should be kept out of the workplace; and atheists have every right to get "anti-theist" in their sentiments if theists cannot keep their "idle mouths from devil's work;" supposed to be working, peeps! Tongue

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12-11-2011, 05:14 AM
RE: Religion and the workplace
In a previous job we had one strange one who would occasionally cough out some random noise.
One day at lunch he asked us all (four in total, small team) if we had ticked the “I’m a happy christen” box on the recent census.
Three resounding no’s… Not what he was hoping for.
Up till that point I had no idea who was what, nor did I care.
Didn’t change what I thought of him in the slightest, I thought he was fucking odd to start with.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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14-11-2011, 06:49 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(02-11-2011 07:52 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  As far as suing for wrongful dismissal, here in Canada the Human Rights Tribunal (appointed, not elected) can do almost anything they want and their decisions are usually final. We do not have the protections you in the States have. Our "Bill of Rights" can be set aside for any reason. We do not have freedom of speech (hate speech is punishable by law, freedom of religion, public tax money supports the RC school system, and on and on. We have a majority government now (with less than 50% of the popular vote) that is virtually an dictatorship until the next election (unless of course they decide to forgo the next election).

I wouldn't assume this Jimmy. I'm Canadian too, and have seen people win workplace discrimination cases for far less than this. I would let your HR know that if they fire you for this (because they won't be able to produce any other reason) they will be facing some trouble. Your co worker baited you, and you could be just as easily 'offended' by his Catholicism as he is by your atheism. Nobody gets favor here, or at least they shouldn't according to Human Rights codes. Nothing scares HR more than a threat of suit especially when they know they don't have anything to fall back on...if you've been a model employee in the past they have nothing.

So like I said, get proactive with this and make sure HR knows that you won't lay down on this if they pass unfair judgement. Put the ball in YOUR court.
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15-11-2011, 10:07 AM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(02-11-2011 07:52 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  It was one person and he approached me to ask about my atheism. I told him my background and about my not believing in a god or any god. He asked about my wife's religion and I told him she was a very devout RC. He asked me, "Do you thinks she is right?" I said no, I think she is dead wrong, that she thinks I am dead wrong. He asked if I thought he (RC) was wrong too and I said yes, that is the nature of my atheism. Next thing I know I am up in HR explaining myself.

As far as suing for wrongful dismissal, here in Canada the Human Rights Tribunal (appointed, not elected) can do almost anything they want and their decisions are usually final. We do not have the protections you in the States have. Our "Bill of Rights" can be set aside for any reason. We do not have freedom of speech (hate speech is punishable by law, freedom of religion, public tax money supports the RC school system, and on and on. We have a majority government now (with less than 50% of the popular vote) that is virtually an dictatorship until the next election (unless of course they decide to forgo the next election).
I am a Canadian and we have protection:
Section Two of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Fundamental Freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
© freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2011, 06:01 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(15-11-2011 10:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2011 07:52 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  It was one person and he approached me to ask about my atheism. I told him my background and about my not believing in a god or any god. He asked about my wife's religion and I told him she was a very devout RC. He asked me, "Do you thinks she is right?" I said no, I think she is dead wrong, that she thinks I am dead wrong. He asked if I thought he (RC) was wrong too and I said yes, that is the nature of my atheism. Next thing I know I am up in HR explaining myself.

As far as suing for wrongful dismissal, here in Canada the Human Rights Tribunal (appointed, not elected) can do almost anything they want and their decisions are usually final. We do not have the protections you in the States have. Our "Bill of Rights" can be set aside for any reason. We do not have freedom of speech (hate speech is punishable by law, freedom of religion, public tax money supports the RC school system, and on and on. We have a majority government now (with less than 50% of the popular vote) that is virtually an dictatorship until the next election (unless of course they decide to forgo the next election).
I am a Canadian and we have protection:
Section Two of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Fundamental Freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
© freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. My public tax money goes to support the Catholic school system
Freedom of opinion unless that opinion is deemed hate crime and out goes your freedom of opinion and expression.
Freedom of peaceful assembly? For sure not at a G20 meeting. Secret laws passed, peaceful protesters arrested etc etc.
Freedom of association? Not if that association is deemed illegal or just hateful.

We here in Canada suffer under the illusion that these 'rights' are undeniable but we see it happen all the time that even our most cherished rights can be laid aside for the betterment of society as a whole. All this is moot when it becomes a workplace situation. You do not have the right at all to harass or intimidate your fellow employees and you can be fired for such actions.

I no longer am in the workplace, I retired. I was anything but a model employee and I was constantly harassed for being outspoken when the opportunity arose. The balance of power lies heavily in the favour of the person who is claiming victimhood and it is a dangerous thing to try and buck the system. In the case described above, I was paraded in front of all the employees, given no previous idea what the problem was and was told I had to explain myself. They never did talk to the complainer before or after. They simply went on his statement, Jimmygun hates Catholics. They did nothing further to me because they knew it would be messy but they did nothing to the complainer to keep him from further acusations (which he continued to do to others).

Some months later this guy went ape-shit and started throwing chairs around, screaming and yelling about what, I don't know. I decided to take the same route as he had with me and I complained that his actions of beligerence caused the people around him to fear for their safety. I explained after repeated visits, that if they did not do anything to correct his behaviour then I might be forced into taking it into my own hands. The HR people told me that I shouldn't be afraid of this guy going off his nut because I was twice as big as he was. They did nothing for 6 weeks but finally sat him down and told him to cool his jets.
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16-11-2011, 03:22 AM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(15-11-2011 10:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2011 07:52 AM)jimmygun Wrote:  It was one person and he approached me to ask about my atheism. I told him my background and about my not believing in a god or any god. He asked about my wife's religion and I told him she was a very devout RC. He asked me, "Do you thinks she is right?" I said no, I think she is dead wrong, that she thinks I am dead wrong. He asked if I thought he (RC) was wrong too and I said yes, that is the nature of my atheism. Next thing I know I am up in HR explaining myself.

As far as suing for wrongful dismissal, here in Canada the Human Rights Tribunal (appointed, not elected) can do almost anything they want and their decisions are usually final. We do not have the protections you in the States have. Our "Bill of Rights" can be set aside for any reason. We do not have freedom of speech (hate speech is punishable by law, freedom of religion, public tax money supports the RC school system, and on and on. We have a majority government now (with less than 50% of the popular vote) that is virtually an dictatorship until the next election (unless of course they decide to forgo the next election).
I am a Canadian and we have protection:
Section Two of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Fundamental Freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
© freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

I'm Canadian also and I've read the Charter of Rights, unlike the US bill of rights most of the our charter rights come with exception and limition clauses written right under the "freedoms" which we supposedly have, and don't forget the notwithsanding clause which the provinces & feds can use any time to negate part or all of our charter "rights". After all that's how Quebec gets to keep thier clearly discriminatory language laws. We only have the rights we are willing to fight for.
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16-11-2011, 11:38 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
(01-11-2011 01:30 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  From my experience, it is best to keep religious views separate from workplace. If another is seen to violate this principle, it is either fisticuffs or fink. Yeah, those options suck, but "believing life is fair" is religious nonsense.

I thought you became a prophet while in the workplace.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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20-11-2011, 08:45 PM
RE: Religion and the workplace
Ok, now I'm pissed off because at our company year-end 'Holiday Party' which included about 100 people from various ethnicities and such, one of the higher ups decided that we would 'say grace' before eating and proceeded to thank god for our food.

Myself and my best friend are atheists, we kind of looked at each other like "are you serious?" and then to my suprise I realized a few other people at the table were looking around confused as well. Another friend of mine, who is an ex-JW (I assumed she still believed in God though) said "Um...did anyone else find that inappropriate?"

This is a very large corporation I work for, one who really pushes the whole diversity and inclusivity thing....shouldn't that mean keeping religion out of corporate functions? I'm annoyed and feel like sending HR a 'reminder' that inclusivity doesn't mean that we have to put up with god speech at a company dinner. I worry though, that the response I may get is that I'm 'getting bent out of shape', especially being that I happen to live in a pretty Christian area. What would YOU do?
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22-11-2011, 03:27 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2011 03:40 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: Religion and the workplace
(01-11-2011 02:27 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Peeps tell me, "Merry Christmas;" I go "Happy Mithras!" You know, whatever's clever - it bugs me, but I try not to let my bug decrease others enjoyment of the holidays - the time for that is January. (How comes we don't have a devil emote?)

Don't be a jerk, it's a national holiday and there's no excuse for behaving that way. If someone wishes you Merry Christmas it is in the spirit of good will and kindness. How hard is it to say Merry Christmas back? If someone said Happy Hanukkah to me then I would say it to them in return. The world doesn't revolve around what you believe and people shouldn't have to mince their holiday greetings in fear that someone is going to spit it back in their faces in some snide and condescending way, ESPECIALLY given the spirit in which they are saying those words to you. You may as well tell someone to fuck off when they smile and say "Good morning".

That you feel the need to behave this way says FAR more about you than it does about them, and that kind of behavior does more harm to atheism than Santa Claus and Christmas trees ever could.

Atheists are a tiny minority in this country, and in many others. You often represent all of us in the minds of many people, and you should conduct yourself accordingly.

EDIT: And don't even start with this "oh well it's just the same as what they said" garbage, because you know your response is calculated specifically to insult and degrade.

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