Religion's Death Throes...*
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10-05-2017, 04:21 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 06:15 PM by Cosmo.)
Religion's Death Throes...*
I'm kinda just looking for a place to write down my thoughts on religion in politics, which seems to be a growing problem. If they seem disjointed or sporadic I apologize. If you have any clarifying thoughts feel free to write them down. I don't always make it on everyday, but I try to. Anyways, I'm specifically going to jot down my thoughts about Islam and Christofascism, as I heard it called in articles that ShadowProject and mordant posted (thanks for the articles SP and mordant!) literally so that I can create my own thesis statement about the religio-political landscape of the era. I find when your thoughts just have you confused, writing them down helps a lot. Maybe there's a conversation in here somewhere.

Religion's Death Throws... They're sort of ugly it seems. I'm beginning to wonder if religion isn't actually a threat to the next level of progress for humanity. You've heard of the Dark Ages I'm sure. For those reading who may not have heard of them, the dark ages followed the internal collapse of the government of the Roman Empire. This is an important fact. They did not happen directly because of religion, but lasted much longer than they should have due to the Catholic Churches political control and the deliberate censoring of scientific inquiry, such as Giordano Bruno's accurate prediction that the Universe is a huge sea of galaxies and stars and that we are literally smaller than dust by comparison (I feel like that was one of the most important observations made by any scientist between the Dark Ages and the Renaissance, and he was burned at the stake by the Catholic Church for it.)

So anyways, we have just started this beautiful cascade of technological advancement that is allowing for more rapid progress for our species than we've ever had before. At the forefront of this are scientists and engineers working diligently to bring about new, better, more sustainable, cleaner methods of doing everything. Humanism and science are coalescing as we realize that we are all humans (one race, not five,) floating on a ball of ancient star stuff through an eternal vanta black vacuum that we call space. Science, seems to me, like it is going to ultimately be the only possible salvation for mankind.

Sorry if I wax poetic about a method of physical examination but I respect it greatly after being brainwashed and doing mental gymnastics between the rings of religion and science for so long.

On the other side of this is religion; a powerful force for mind control; a system of lies told and retold, many of the people telling them totally unaware of their falsehood. These thousands of years old lies are clung to so daftly, in the face of all contrary scientific logic and reasoning, and then perpetuated to the young, so that there is a large portion of the human population, billions of people, that believe backwards lies, with their entire heart. The young must be indoctrinated, because a human who grows up without God, with an empirical mind, would not likely accept such a random claim as the FSM.

And this might be the saddest thing of all. Whether or not those at the top spawning and respawning these ancient myths as truth are doing so knowingly aware of their bullshitery is debatable, but what we can surmise based on observation is that these lies seem to birth hurdles that the scientific and humanistic communities are constantly having to jump over. Neil DeGrasse Tyson puts it very well:

"(mentions lots of American Adversity)... but I don't remember any time when people were standing in denial, of what science was."

"This is science. This isn't something to toy with. This isn't something to say, 'I choose not to believe E=mc^2.' You don't have that option."

Fortunately, there also seem to be more people who are outspoken about their skepticism than ever before in human history. This is fabulous! I'm not looking to directly destroy someone's faith, but rather make the truth wholly available to them in detail so that they can see where their belief system conflicts with reality (unless they're looking to convert me of course.) At least that way I know that if their belief system is maintained it is through cognitive dissonance.

Conversely, and once again unfortunately, this outspoken skepticism, the simple asking of questions and the demanding of proof, has led religious communities to feel 'attacked.' One Christian article I read specified Atheist Republic as a 'hate group.'

I do not hate you. I pity you.

This sense of being 'attacked,' seems to have forced a rallying of spirits amongst the religious. Their God, or Allah, cannot seem to protect himself from scrutiny, and they can't protect him either, yet refuse to believe that he doesn't exist.

[Image: 63354844.jpg]

From the Christian community this has yielded a subtle, yet totally sinister (and totally revealing) infiltration of the government so that public policy against 'sin' can be influenced from within.

From the Muslim community, this has sparked rage, anger, violent protesting, and the death of apostates, among a whole host of other Voldemorts.

Now... I hate islamic ideology. I want to make that very clear. I don't hate Christianity, so much as feel like it is totally befuddling and logically self defeating. At other times in history, Christianity has been the enemy of human dignity, and still is when it manifests its extremist head but, not so much any longer. Islam, however, while also being befuddling (fucking retarded, I believe, is an appropriate term,) is a toxic manifestation of all that is cruel and wrong with the world. Rather than being subtle about its attempted infiltration of government it has openly declared that Muslims do not have to listen to a government that doesn't respect Islamic law first and foremost. At one point Choudhry wanted to turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque and told the Queen to skedaddle.





(Edited In: I should clarify that I disagree with his final premise that seems to be completely against Freedom of Religion. Believe whatever you want, so long as you don't attempt to influence the way that other people live, or their wellbeing. This doesn't seem to happen with organized religion.)

Watching even ten minutes of this makes it abundantly clear what is happening. I haven't watched the whole thing. I think a Christian guy might have made it, but he does a great job of showing how absolutely sick this cult is.

Religion cannot handle basic scrutiny, because it is untrue. It's falseness is not recognized by its successfully brainwashed adherents. Those who believe it feel attacked and retaliate by trying to bring their religion to the top of the human totem pole again so as to revalidate the belief system. Only this time, the attack is coming from the scientific method...

And nothing can be done by the religious except for to ignore or deny the facts that are consistently presenting themselves. Their straw man arguments about the anthropically based Universe are falling apart twig by twig as we realize the Universe is so big that the odds of life appearing are actually very good, and the amount of dead, decayed nothingness (dead stars, millions of balls of pointless, cold rock floating around) in space shows that the Universe is decidedly and inherently NOT fine-tuned specifically for life, but rather, life is a very cool byproduct of basic physical phenomena.

What do they do with that?

They seem to get angry.

This anger has led to an outright denial of that which Science has confirmed to be true (the earth, for instance. It's like... billions of years old... sorry,) such that some religious peoples try to negate scientific discovery by coming up with ad hoc rationalizations that people with little scientific knowledge and a ton of religiosity accept without question.

I know this is true, because I was one of them.

Now normally, as I stated earlier, I'm not out there trying to grind down people's faiths or destroy ideologies. But what is the appropriate response to religion when it seems to fly directly in the face of both scientific knowledge and the right to live your life as you see fit without infringing on other people's right to do the same? How do you bat down something that seems to increasingly become the enemy of actual progress as a species? Especially at a time when we need serious progress, likely more than anything.

I wish I was kidding, but history has this awful tendency to repeat itself. If religion is not stamped out.. at this pivotal moment in time... right now... I worry we may plunge back down into the dark from whence we came. It happened before. We don't even know what kind of knowledge was lost from antiquity because so much of it was burned once religion and politics successfully intermingled.

Is it really a stretch to think the same thing could happen again?

I'm honestly hoping that it's stretching. The body of scientific knowledge we have is much more vast now than it was before, but the ability of the religiously motivated to overlook that, flock together, and assert control, is truly astonishing.

The bottom line is... I'm worried... like... really worried. Climate change denial, looking forward to the apocalypse, sharia law becoming state law... Christofascists rising to hold seats of power over arguably the most dominant nation on earth, ISIL, Israel, Palestine, Syria; none of this is a recipe for progress. It's actually a fantastic recipe for war.

And I feel, right now, like I'm sitting here, doing nothing, watching the world go to shit... and a vast amount of why is literally over a lack of knowledge. That's all it is. Some poster was asking why we as skeptics value truth. This is fucking why. Look what ignorance has done to the world. Do you not realize how much more beautiful and incredible this world would be if it was filled with well informed humanists? Religion should be dying off, and replaced by the new emergent truths that are making themselves apparent through scientific inquiry over and over. I don't know if this is the case. Is religion gonna go down fighting, or rise up and assert horrifying dominance again like it has so many times before?

So I guess what I'm wondering to myself is how to make the madness stop. I just feel totally helpless against this tsunami of stupidity that breeds hate like nothing, and none of it ever seems to get better. I'm beginning to see that religious ignorance is a huge part of the problem.

Anyways... I'm not even sure I clarified anything for myself, but I'm glad I got my thoughts into some relatively coherent body of writing. I'll look back on it later and there might be a thesis there somewhere.

So yeah... Have a good day everyone! Smile

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-05-2017, 06:06 PM
RE: Religion's Death Throws...
Um...I think you mean "throes," not "throws." Blink
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10-05-2017, 06:15 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 06:24 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Religion's Death Throws...
Really... is that what it is?

Lol... I thought the phrase was referring to punches. Haha!

That's awesome! I feel hilariously dumb! Tongue But you taught me something new today!

*Scurries off to edit

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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10-05-2017, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 07:11 PM by Vera.)
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
I *so* had to stop myself from going where Gwaithmir went, but didn't want Cosmo to feel like a bit of a damp squid Big Grin




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10-05-2017, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 06:59 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
Quote:I *so* had to stop myself from going where Gwaithmir went, but didn't want Cosmo for feel like a bit of a damp squid Big Grin

Lol thanks! Confused

I thought I made some good points, and I feel like they were completely invalidated by that, Facepalm and I like to think I have a decent grasp of the english language. Maybe not. Ick. Lol.

Still pretty funny though. Giant, basically essay of thought, and... big spelling error in the title. What would a prof think of that?

Bleh... ...

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-05-2017, 06:59 PM
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
No, it was well-written and argued, it's just that we might lack the attention span and I, personally, am professionally deformed (am a translator). Tongue


Plus we all feel like Moominpappa at times: "I stopped asking and longed instead to speak of my thoughts and feelings. Alas, there was no one besides myself who found me interesting." Big Grin

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"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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10-05-2017, 07:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 07:49 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
Quote:No, it was well-written and argued, it's just that we might lack the attention span and I, personally, am professionally deformed (am a translator). Tongue

Plus we all feel like Moominpappa at times: "I stopped asking and longed instead to speak of my thoughts and feelings. Alas, there was no one besides myself who found me interesting." Big Grin

Lol I knew it was long enough that most people wouldn't read it, or bother responding Confused.

That's how I feel often. This thread being a great example haha. Smile I like how I found a forum though, where I can post these trains of thought candidly, maybe make sense of them, and potentially garner some intelligent or funny responses from those willing to post. My family is still hyper religious and they don't know that I've totally left the faith, they just think I'm not going to church anymore. The only other person that I bounce these ideas off of in reality is my brother, and he really doesn't care about anything that doesn't have an effect on his hormones, if you know what I mean.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-05-2017, 07:34 PM
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
No, I did read it (didn't watch the videos though).

I am, however, lucky enough to be as openly atheist as one can be without stopping people in the street and telling them and I've ranted so much and with so many different people, I don't have that inner need to put everything into words. Because I have, dozens of times.

But it's therapeutic and it helps not just you, but also the people who may browse this forum, going through similar experiences Thumbsup

(And some of us may also have a bit of hobbit in them: "We fear to say too much. It robs us of the right words when a jest is out of place.") [Image: 32.gif]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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10-05-2017, 08:03 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 08:09 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
Quote:No, I did read it (didn't watch the videos though).

I am, however, lucky enough to be as openly atheist as one can be without stopping people in the street and telling them and I've ranted so much and with so many different people, I don't have that inner need to put everything into words. Because I have, dozens of times.

But it's therapeutic and it helps not just you, but also the people who may browse this forum, going through similar experiences

Yeah see I've only been like this for about a year. For years when I was bombarded with scientific information I would hold on to my belief in God by creating just, I dunno, I guess essentially random ad hoc rationalizations so that my belief in God was relatively palatable along with science, until I realized it wasn't I suppose. I realized that any good argument for God was actually a potentially sound argument for deism, and that's about it.

Yeah if it helps someone or someone can identify with it that would be enough. Smile

... ... I do have a tendency to say too much I find haha. It's often because I want my point to be crystal clear. If it's not I feel like I failed somehow.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-05-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: Religion's Death Throes...*
I think that religion is on it's way out, and it knows it and is fighting back. But - there are more and more vocal atheists, and younger ones, too. That is how the gay community got going - more and more people coming out after the young ones made enough noise.

It takes a few generations for these things.... And in the US, we better change the government out first.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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