Religion taught in Daycare.
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05-09-2013, 03:15 PM
Religion taught in Daycare.
Question.

Parents bring their children to a public daycare service in Iowa. This daycare plays religious music at the daycare. No where in the Daycare agreement is anything mentioned about religion or the teaching thereof. Is this breaking any codes in the state of Iowa.

Please point me in the direction I need to find any records or laws pertaining to this.

Thank you.

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05-09-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
(05-09-2013 03:15 PM)xlogik_bomb Wrote:  Question.

Parents bring their children to a public daycare service in Iowa. This daycare plays religious music at the daycare. No where in the Daycare agreement is anything mentioned about religion or the teaching thereof. Is this breaking any codes in the state of Iowa.

Please point me in the direction I need to find any records or laws pertaining to this.

Thank you.

Interesting question; I know we had a layer post a couple times, and I'd love to know where they went...

Anyway, I'm no layer or a 'Murican, but, I'd have to guess it would depend on one thing: Is this daycare service State run, or Privately run?

If it is State run, and the religious music (and specific religious teaching), is part of the curriculum then you might have a case for the State in that instance violating the Establishment Clause "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.", by virtue of it including the teaching of religion to minors, without comparison (and lets be honest here, they'd accept what they're told by staff).

However, in the more likely scenario that it is privately owned and operated the government has no say as to how it is run, so long as it does not violate any laws (child abuse and such), I can think of no reason why they can't set their own curriculum in their own establishment, they should inform people, but aside from possibly false advertisement, it's no crime that I am aware of.

Granted, I didn't comb through Iowa law or daycare-related regulations so I might be way off the mark.

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05-09-2013, 05:48 PM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
Don't know about Iowa law in particular.

More generally, unless it's run by some part of government, or if it was advertised or represented as secular, or if they did something illegal in its own right for religious reasons, no law was broken. Especially if the music was just a Christian station they happened to tune into, or certain music that's religious in its lyrics but has moved into popular culture. (eg, Bette Middler's "God is Watching Us" or "Silent Night" around Christmas time).

Your best redress is probably taking your kid and business elsewhere and passing the warning around to any local atheist parents you know. And be sure to ask about that sort of thing in the future before signing your kid up for daycare. If they DO tell you that they don't do that sort of thing while you're trying to decide whether to sign your kid up, and then they do it anyway, it's some flavor of false advertising.
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05-09-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
The thing is that if its privately run, there is nothing we can do about it. Sure its stupid, but we don't punish catholic schools for doing the same crap, as we shouldn't. But if it is state run, then feel free to obliterate them in the court.

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06-09-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
It's like AA... until recently I had no idea they were a religious organization.

I'm not American, so I don't know all the ins and outs, but surely a court order to attend AA is unconstitutional?

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06-09-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
(06-09-2013 06:33 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  It's like AA... until recently I had no idea they were a religious organization.

I'm not American, so I don't know all the ins and outs, but surely a court order to attend AA is unconstitutional?

An order for the AA specifically can be challenged on those grounds, yes. However, most such court orders are simply a requirement to attend SOME sort of support group. There's a wide range of such programs, including secular options, that could meet the requirement of a court order. The AA is simply the best known, most popular, and coincidentally theistic. Furthermore, most such orders are typically offered as an alternative to jail time which muddies the issue by making it technically voluntary, even if it doesn't actually change its constitutionality.

The problem arises due to cost or availability. If the AA's the only one that's set up shop anywhere near you, or the only one you can afford (because they're free and others aren't), then you're bum out of luck.
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06-09-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
(06-09-2013 11:58 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 06:33 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  It's like AA... until recently I had no idea they were a religious organization.

I'm not American, so I don't know all the ins and outs, but surely a court order to attend AA is unconstitutional?

An order for the AA specifically can be challenged on those grounds, yes. However, most such court orders are simply a requirement to attend SOME sort of support group. There's a wide range of such programs, including secular options, that could meet the requirement of a court order. The AA is simply the best known, most popular, and coincidentally theistic. Furthermore, most such orders are typically offered as an alternative to jail time which muddies the issue by making it technically voluntary, even if it doesn't actually change its constitutionality.

The problem arises due to cost or availability. If the AA's the only one that's set up shop anywhere near you, or the only one you can afford (because they're free and others aren't), then you're bum out of luck.

AA is not a religious organization.

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06-09-2013, 03:48 PM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
(06-09-2013 02:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 11:58 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  An order for the AA specifically can be challenged on those grounds, yes. However, most such court orders are simply a requirement to attend SOME sort of support group. There's a wide range of such programs, including secular options, that could meet the requirement of a court order. The AA is simply the best known, most popular, and coincidentally theistic. Furthermore, most such orders are typically offered as an alternative to jail time which muddies the issue by making it technically voluntary, even if it doesn't actually change its constitutionality.

The problem arises due to cost or availability. If the AA's the only one that's set up shop anywhere near you, or the only one you can afford (because they're free and others aren't), then you're bum out of luck.

AA is not a religious organization.

I was under the impression that one of the key elements of the AA was the acknowledgement of a higher power which you could appeal to for strength in times of weakness.

*does a little bit of web surfing*

Yup, it does, its emphasis is on life change through spiritualism, and a sociological study has described it as "quasi religious", with one foot halfway into secularism and the other planted in religion.

Here's the study. I think you need to register to read the paper but the abstract is front and center.
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07-09-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
(06-09-2013 03:48 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(06-09-2013 02:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  AA is not a religious organization.

I was under the impression that one of the key elements of the AA was the acknowledgement of a higher power which you could appeal to for strength in times of weakness.

*does a little bit of web surfing*

Yup, it does, its emphasis is on life change through spiritualism, and a sociological study has described it as "quasi religious", with one foot halfway into secularism and the other planted in religion.

Here's the study. I think you need to register to read the paper but the abstract is front and center.

AA groups vary in character. Some are overtly religious, some are quite secular.

A 'higher power' can be anything - it is not specifically theistic or even spiritual.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-09-2013, 05:13 AM
RE: Religion taught in Daycare.
If it's not state operated, then they can do what ever they want.
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