Religious Gibberish By Me
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21-05-2012, 04:41 PM
 
RE: Religious Gibberish By Me
(21-05-2012 09:58 AM)lucradis Wrote:  This will likely come off as gibberish because it's just a bunch of things that ran through my head whilst showering. Now I shall attempt to write them out without creating numerous other pathways and leaving no endings. And go:

So, God created a bunch of rules for us to live by. God is Perfect. God can see the future and the past, he knows all and some think, controls all.

The rules are outdated by most peoples standards. Even when you look at them as related to the past, they may have been time appropriate but are still nonsensical. How could a perfect god make nonsensical rules? Why would a god make nonsensical rules?


I’m not going to get trapped into defending Judeo-Christian rules, but just logically, God is perfect because God is God. Therefore, whatever God does is perfect. God doesn’t derive his perfection from some source or idea of perfection, He is perfection. So does God do good? No. Whatever God does becomes what is good.

Quote:If it intended on changing the rules at a later date to suit the times better, why hasn't it?

If you think the rules haven’t changed, I’d compare Leviticus and Deuteronomy to our current U.S. Constitution.


Quote:If as a Christian you feel that God is perfect and it's word is law, why don't you stone gays and beat your slaves? Is it because you secretly don't believe that he bible is the word of god?

Maybe they don’t have the money to buy any slaves and maybe they don’t want to do the time for killing gay people. What does that have to do with what’s right? I’m not saying I agree with owning slaves (although what a slave is may need to be debated), and I’m not for killing gays, but from a logical point of view a rule can be right, but there can be other forces that make a person cower from following the rules.


Quote:Does god wear pants if it created man in it's image? Or does it ignore the shame it imbued us with and let it's willy hang out like an elephant trunk?

So you’re upset you can’t walk around in public naked?

Quote:What does an omnipotent being do for fun?


Experiences himself. Beholds himself (I realize there’s no way to term this without making it sound like masturbation, but I am working within the constraints of English.).

Quote:Does god have emotions?

Man got emotions from somewhere.

Quote:If god doesn't have emotions how does it love us?

By caring for us, instructing us, and killing us when the time is right. I take it you’ve never owned a dog.

Quote:If god does have emotions how do you know it loves you?

By caring for us, instructing us, and killing us when the time is right. I take it you’ve never owned a dog. Have you ever noticed that the most common ways in which people die don’t really hurt, e.g., starvation, septic shock, drowning, blood loss. It seems to me we would have evolved to make those things really hurt, to give us more motivation to prevent them. Also, look how the ones who can suffer the most spiritually are also the only ones who can take their own lives.

Quote:and how could it be perfect? Emotions by nature make us fallible.

What!?


Quote:A god without emotions couldn't love us nor could it hate us, it would be indifferent. A god without emotions wouldn't be likely to have created us in the first place, and if it did (maybe as a study into emotions and how they work and affect creatures) it wouldn't be likely to care about our ongoing existence and would likely just wipe us out or walk away into the ether never to look back again. How do Christians reconcile this?


I’ll leave that to the Christians in the forum, because I can’t really figure out what you’re trying to say.

Quote:Why is god always exempt from everything? Such as, the whole nothing can exist without a creator argument.
How does that make any sense in any way more than something from nothing? It sounds to me like just one line of gibberish instead of another line. No more proof behind one line than the other. So how does the Christian or religious brain question something from nothing when it comes to science (which science has never stated as fact) but not question it whatsoever when it comes to god? If I could do that I might be a theist. But I can't. My brain can't reconcile that idea.


If the universe had always existed, then you’d be right. But logically, given what we observe, it couldn’t have always existed. Because of that, something like a God that has always existed is necessary to make the logic puzzle fit together.

I have noticed a trend among neo-atheists these days to move away from the idea of the big bang. You sound like you’d like to do the same thing.

Quote:How does heaven and god give life any meaning?


Sub-reality can draw meaning from ultimate reality (which itself can have no meaning). In the case of humans, we are created to be mirrors for God. We start out tabula rasa and end up merging into the oneness of God, and God sees himself through us all the way. That’s our meaning. That’s our purpose. That’s what “Christ” is: God, conscious of himself from within his creation.

If you examine your existence, you will see that either you have no meaning or the above is the only possible meaning you can have.


Quote:Atheists have no meaning to their lives... Heaven to me is just another level. If you view it like a videogame, level one is birth and then life, level two would be heaven, but the ending would suck if it just ended there without any reason behind it. No one would ever play that game. It would be pointless. If the videogame is this: Level one is birth, level two is learning new skills, level three is mating, level four is having kids, level four is learning more, level five is seeing your kids become adults, level five is dying but being survived by your kids. well that is a more gratifying game. I mean what the hell would anything you've done here even mean if you just got to keep going indefinitely? And what the fuck would you do in heaven that is so great?


On your lucid spiritual plane, it will be your turn to play God. So, you need to start thinking like a God now and learning what it means to be God through the experiences God puts you through in this life. Otherwise, all you’re going to do is muck things up and create a hell for yourself and your creations.

What comes after the LSP, I don’t know, except an eventual consolidation back into the undefined substance of God.

Quote:If in heaven you are perpetually happy and blissful doesn't existing lose it point? If you can't be miserable or angry doesn't that ruin happiness? It would have no value. And forever? Ugh. Why?

See! What you just described is a spiritual lesson. You will need that wisdom on your LSP, as well as all the other lessons you accumulate. The last thing you need is to believe in God. It just doesn’t matter if you do or don’t, and I really don’t think it will matter on the LSP.

In fact, if the perception of the physical world blinds us to our LSP, you can bet that the experience and work of being the God of your LSP after death will utterly blind you to God’s existence. I believe on the LSP, you won’t even think about whether God exists. God will be something you are growing into. The idea of God, when you’ve been on your LSP for a while, will be like the idea of yourself as an older man.

That’s how I see it anyway on May 21, 2012, at 5:36 PM.

Great post. Great convo! Bowing

Ed
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21-05-2012, 06:08 PM
RE: Religious Gibberish By Me
(21-05-2012 04:41 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 09:58 AM)lucradis Wrote:  This will likely come off as gibberish because it's just a bunch of things that ran through my head whilst showering. Now I shall attempt to write them out without creating numerous other pathways and leaving no endings. And go:

So, God created a bunch of rules for us to live by. God is Perfect. God can see the future and the past, he knows all and some think, controls all.

The rules are outdated by most peoples standards. Even when you look at them as related to the past, they may have been time appropriate but are still nonsensical. How could a perfect god make nonsensical rules? Why would a god make nonsensical rules?


I’m not going to get trapped into defending Judeo-Christian rules, but just logically, God is perfect because God is God. Therefore, whatever God does is perfect. God doesn’t derive his perfection from some source or idea of perfection, He is perfection. So does God do good? No. Whatever God does becomes what is good.

Quote:If it intended on changing the rules at a later date to suit the times better, why hasn't it?

If you think the rules haven’t changed, I’d compare Leviticus and Deuteronomy to our current U.S. Constitution.

Can people change the rules of god?

Quote:If as a Christian you feel that God is perfect and it's word is law, why don't you stone gays and beat your slaves? Is it because you secretly don't believe that he bible is the word of god?

Maybe they don’t have the money to buy any slaves and maybe they don’t want to do the time for killing gay people. What does that have to do with what’s right? I’m not saying I agree with owning slaves (although what a slave is may need to be debated), and I’m not for killing gays, but from a logical point of view a rule can be right, but there can be other forces that make a person cower from following the rules.

If you truly believed in god and the reward of heaven and the punishment of hell, should human punishments concern you?
Quote:Does god wear pants if it created man in it's image? Or does it ignore the shame it imbued us with and let it's willy hang out like an elephant trunk?

So you’re upset you can’t walk around in public naked?
(21-05-2012 04:41 PM)Egor Wrote:  Aren't you?

Quote:What does an omnipotent being do for fun?


Experiences himself. Beholds himself (I realize there’s no way to term this without making it sound like masturbation, but I am working within the constraints of English.).

I get that if there were a supreme being I wouldn't likely be able to comprehend how or why it works, but that's one of the fun things of living now, thinking about the impossible.
Quote:Does god have emotions?

Man got emotions from somewhere.

Quote:If god doesn't have emotions how does it love us?

By caring for us, instructing us, and killing us when the time is right. I take it you’ve never owned a dog.

I have owned a dog, and cats. But I didn't create them for some unnamed purpose. I didn't set their parameters for happiness and survival. And I'm not talking about the acts typically associated with love, but the genuine emotion. Essentially I'm saying that if God weren't capable of emotion then it couldn't love. So the belief that god loves all of it's little children would be faulty.

Quote:If god does have emotions how do you know it loves you?

By caring for us, instructing us, and killing us when the time is right. I take it you’ve never owned a dog. Have you ever noticed that the most common ways in which people die don’t really hurt, e.g., starvation, septic shock, drowning, blood loss. It seems to me we would have evolved to make those things really hurt, to give us more motivation to prevent them. Also, look how the ones who can suffer the most spiritually are also the only ones who can take their own lives.

Those aren't the most common ways to die. Most deaths are said to actually be quite painful. But we only know the ones we can visually see, or the ones where the person who dies comes back to life. I would imagine there are peaceful ways to die. My dad died of cancer. He died peacefully in his sleep. But the thing is, it wasn't death that was painful, it was the time leading up to it.
Quote:and how could it be perfect? Emotions by nature make us fallible.

What!?

Sorry, allow me to elaborate to clear up confusion. Emotions make us hasty, and confused. They can cloud our judgement and blind us to truth, whereas without them we would be more likely to make our decisions based off of the best possible outcome to ourselves. Like sociopaths tend to do... at first anyways.
Quote:A god without emotions couldn't love us nor could it hate us, it would be indifferent. A god without emotions wouldn't be likely to have created us in the first place, and if it did (maybe as a study into emotions and how they work and affect creatures) it wouldn't be likely to care about our ongoing existence and would likely just wipe us out or walk away into the ether never to look back again. How do Christians reconcile this?


I’ll leave that to the Christians in the forum, because I can’t really figure out what you’re trying to say.
(21-05-2012 04:41 PM)Egor Wrote:  Fair enough. Mostly I was just gibbering out loud.

Quote:Why is god always exempt from everything? Such as, the whole nothing can exist without a creator argument.
How does that make any sense in any way more than something from nothing? It sounds to me like just one line of gibberish instead of another line. No more proof behind one line than the other. So how does the Christian or religious brain question something from nothing when it comes to science (which science has never stated as fact) but not question it whatsoever when it comes to god? If I could do that I might be a theist. But I can't. My brain can't reconcile that idea.


If the universe had always existed, then you’d be right. But logically, given what we observe, it couldn’t have always existed. Because of that, something like a God that has always existed is necessary to make the logic puzzle fit together.

I have noticed a trend among neo-atheists these days to move away from the idea of the big bang. You sound like you’d like to do the same thing.

I was never attached to the big bang in any way. It's a theory like everything else and is subject to change when further evidence comes in one way or another. I also wouldn't presume to say anything about it's existence or non existence because my knowledge is lacking on that front these days. I only know what I've learned previously and that tells me it is the most likely scenario. If you can provide links to something showing why the universe couldn't always have existed. I'm aware it might not have and I'm aware that it might have. I've never heard any compelling reasons one way or the other.
Quote:How does heaven and god give life any meaning?


Sub-reality can draw meaning from ultimate reality (which itself can have no meaning). In the case of humans, we are created to be mirrors for God. We start out tabula rasa and end up merging into the oneness of God, and God sees himself through us all the way. That’s our meaning. That’s our purpose. That’s what “Christ” is: God, conscious of himself from within his creation.

If you examine your existence, you will see that either you have no meaning or the above is the only possible meaning you can have.

So are you saying that heaven gives our current lives meaning? If not I have no idea what you just wrote.
Quote:Atheists have no meaning to their lives... Heaven to me is just another level. If you view it like a videogame, level one is birth and then life, level two would be heaven, but the ending would suck if it just ended there without any reason behind it. No one would ever play that game. It would be pointless. If the videogame is this: Level one is birth, level two is learning new skills, level three is mating, level four is having kids, level four is learning more, level five is seeing your kids become adults, level five is dying but being survived by your kids. well that is a more gratifying game. I mean what the hell would anything you've done here even mean if you just got to keep going indefinitely? And what the fuck would you do in heaven that is so great?


On your lucid spiritual plane, it will be your turn to play God. So, you need to start thinking like a God now and learning what it means to be God through the experiences God puts you through in this life. Otherwise, all you’re going to do is muck things up and create a hell for yourself and your creations.

What comes after the LSP, I don’t know, except an eventual consolidation back into the undefined substance of God.

I'm shrugging. You can't see that I hope, otherwise you're watching me and that is a frightening thought.
Quote:If in heaven you are perpetually happy and blissful doesn't existing lose it point? If you can't be miserable or angry doesn't that ruin happiness? It would have no value. And forever? Ugh. Why?

See! What you just described is a spiritual lesson. You will need that wisdom on your LSP, as well as all the other lessons you accumulate. The last thing you need is to believe in God. It just doesn’t matter if you do or don’t, and I really don’t think it will matter on the LSP.

In fact, if the perception of the physical world blinds us to our LSP, you can bet that the experience and work of being the God of your LSP after death will utterly blind you to God’s existence. I believe on the LSP, you won’t even think about whether God exists. God will be something you are growing into. The idea of God, when you’ve been on your LSP for a while, will be like the idea of yourself as an older man.

That’s how I see it anyway on May 21, 2012, at 5:36 PM.

Great post. Great convo! Bowing
(21-05-2012 04:41 PM)Egor Wrote:  Agreed, it is nice conversing with you.

Ed

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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21-05-2012, 06:09 PM
RE: Religious Gibberish By Me
Egor, I replied to you within the message. You can't really see it unless it's expanded.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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