Religious Intolerance
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10-04-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
I have no problem with religion as long as it stays where it belongs.

Unfortunately it never does, there are those who will always wish to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Then I become intolerant of it.
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10-04-2017, 03:43 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 01:02 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  Hiya. Smile

I just wanted to get some opinions on a trend I've been seeing on the forums and out in the community.

I've noticed that most are becoming more and more "intolerant" to theism as a whole and are getting tired of the same old arguments, fallacies, and general attitude from theists. I just wanted to get a conversation going about whether or not you have the "coexist" mindset or the "I'm-tired-of-this-bullshit" mindset and if you think others should subscribe to it.

I, personally, am not really bothered by either viewpoint. I understand how infuriating it can be to argue with theists (especially creationists...) and I often find myself less interested in a person after hearing that they believe in God. I also find that those who care too much about this tend to feel burdened or even upset by how many people there are in the world who do subscribe to the dogma. Nevertheless, I thought it'd be interesting to hear what everyone has to say. Big Grin

I'm here in Texas, buckle of the Bible Belt. Here we get millions of fundies and evangelicals. We get creationist attacks on education, attacks on birth control, and more. I have little patience left. We have lots of Christian support for right wing stupid politics, attacks on secularism, and on and on. Texas is one of the seven states where it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office. This is something I no longer have much tolerance for.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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10-04-2017, 04:28 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 03:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Texas is one of the seven states where it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office...

Seriously? In the 21st century?

I find it difficult to believe (not that I'm doubting your claim) but could you elaborate on this a bit more? I always thought in the US that church and state were inexorably separated, and I'm assuming public office includes politicians. How is that not classed as religious discrimination at the very least?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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10-04-2017, 04:46 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 03:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Texas is one of the seven states where it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office. This is something I no longer have much tolerance for.

It is on the books but unenforceable. The "no religious test for public office" in the constitution overrides that. it might be nearly impossible for an out atheists to get elected but it's not illegal.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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10-04-2017, 05:04 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 04:28 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 03:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Texas is one of the seven states where it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office...

Seriously? In the 21st century?

I find it difficult to believe (not that I'm doubting your claim) but could you elaborate on this a bit more? I always thought in the US that church and state were inexorably separated, and I'm assuming public office includes politicians. How is that not classed as religious discrimination at the very least?


Yes, it's true.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/in...-ban-.html

ANNAPOLIS, Md. — A bookkeeper named Roy Torcaso, who happened to be an atheist, refused to declare that he believed in God in order to serve as a notary public in Maryland. His case went all the way to the Supreme Court, and in 1961 the court ruled unanimously for Mr. Torcaso, saying states could not have a “religious test” for public office.

But 53 years later, Maryland and six other states still have articles in their constitutions saying people who do not believe in God are not eligible to hold public office. Maryland’s Constitution still says belief in God is a requirement even for jurors and witnesses.
.....

This New York Times articles goes into the history of such laws at length. It's an eyeopener.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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10-04-2017, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2017 05:13 PM by Cheerful Charlie.)
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 04:46 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 03:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Texas is one of the seven states where it is illegal for an atheist to hold public office. This is something I no longer have much tolerance for.

It is on the books but unenforceable. The "no religious test for public office" in the constitution overrides that. it might be nearly impossible for an out atheists to get elected but it's not illegal.

Probably not enforceable, but yes, it's part of the Texas State Constitution.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-po...-in-texas/

As someone who’s on record saying he doesn’t believe in God, Casar can’t legally represent North Austin’s District 4 on the City Council, Pressley told the American-Statesman. Pressley pointed to a section of the Texas Constitution’s Bill of Rights that says there are no religious qualifications for holding public office, provided that the official “acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.”

Pressley is correct that the language is in the Texas Constitution, but that doesn’t mean that an atheist—which, it’s worth reiterating, Casar says he is not—is actually barred from holding office in Texas. Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, in the No Religious Test Clause, makes clear that restrictions like the one in Texas are unconstitutional.



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Where do things stand to date?
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A challenge to the language did occur in the mid-eighties, when Madalyn Murray O’Hair contested the language with standing as a voter, but instead of striking it from the document, she and then-Attorney General Jim Mattox reached an agreement. As KUT Austin reported in 2008:

[O’Hair] and then-Attorney General Jim Mattox signed an agreement in federal court that contained this line:

The parties hereby agree that the last phrase, “… provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.” is void and of no further effect in that it is in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. […]

-----------------------

Occasionaly, MMO'H was good for something.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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10-04-2017, 05:21 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 05:10 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 04:46 PM)unfogged Wrote:  It is on the books but unenforceable. The "no religious test for public office" in the constitution overrides that. it might be nearly impossible for an out atheists to get elected but it's not illegal.

Probably not enforceable, but yes, it's part of the Texas State Constitution.

Definitely not enforceable. The links and quotes you provided show that clearly. The court voided that provision which means the law was struck down. That it remains on the books is just a matter of the way that's done. Even if they passed a specific repeal the original would remain on the books but there'd be another entry voiding it. That's a waste of time and effort because the court ruling accomplished the same thing.

There's a lot of crap on the books in various states that is now void right up through same-sex marriage prohibitions. Until a state has a constitutional convention and does a rewrite the crap remains on the books. (I'm not a layer so I may have the terminology wrong but I think the gist is correct anyway)

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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10-04-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
I don't have a problem with theists like our own KC, and Aliza, but they don't get let off the hook. Angel

So long as there are folks who believe in invisible sky daddy's without any evidence whatsoever, there'll be TV producers who will clutter up my programming with crap cuz they think folks'll believe in ancient aliens with only flimsy evidence. Laugh out load

Y'all still cool, but come on... I don't need no more bullshit programming on my TV Hug Tongue

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10-04-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: Religious Intolerance
(10-04-2017 03:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  I have no problem with religion as long as it stays where it belongs.

Unfortunately it never does, there are those who will always wish to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.

Then I become intolerant of it.

Yeah, religion is kind of like packing peanuts. No matter how careful you are they get everywhere and just when you think you've got them all in the trash you find them here and there under the couch or in the flower bed.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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