Religious insanity in Israel
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29-12-2011, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 01:45 AM by cufflink.)
Religious insanity in Israel
If you think the west has problems with fundamentalists, take a look at what's going on in Israel:

Israeli Girl, 8, at Center of Tension Over Religious Extremism

[Image: ISRAEL-2-popup-v2.jpg]
  • An 8-year-old girl, walking to school, is spat on and called a whore because her modest dress doesn't meet the standards of the surrounding ultra-Orthodox community.
  • Orthodox male soldiers walk out of a ceremony where female soldiers are singing, because their brand of Judaism says it's wrong for men to listen to women singing. (Sexually enticing, you know.)
  • On certain "kosher" buses, women have to sit in the back.
But on the other side, Israel has a stronger secular tradition than anywhere else in the Middle East. For example, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem have openly held and well-attended Gay Pride festivals.

A dozen or so years ago, when I was visiting Israel with my mother, our jokester of a driver-guide pointed to some villages we were passing and said, "We've got a real problem with all these towns turning black." He said it to get a rise out of me; before I had a chance to express my outrage at his racism, he explained he was referring to the black garb of the Haredim--the ultra-Orthodox crazies. Today it's even worse. What the crazies have going for them is an extremely high birth rate--they think it's their God-given mandate to have as many kids as they possibly can.

Where all this will wind up is anyone's guess.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-12-2011, 02:29 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
(29-12-2011 01:42 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Where all this will wind up is anyone's guess.

You posting this while I'm ranting in the 9/11 thread about Persia makes me think this winds up at tribulation. There's this Israeli cat on another forum that's been talking about this madness from an insider's perspective, and here I am, wondering just how much madness reigns in America. We're joined at the hip to the Jewish state as a democracy in the midst of an area of totalitarian tradition, but at what cost?

There definitely seems to be differing ideals as to what the "spirit of democracy" means; for myself, recent events in Israel ain't it.

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29-12-2011, 02:41 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
(29-12-2011 01:42 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Orthodox male soldiers walk out of a ceremony where female soldiers are singing, because their brand of Judaism says it's wrong for men to listen to women singing. (Sexually enticing, you know.)

How do these guys manage to hang on long enough to stick it in if just singing gives them a hard on? Seriously what a bunch of killjoys Angry.
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29-12-2011, 05:26 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
And they call themselves intelligent and educated people. They are no better than all those poor, ignorant Muslims that surround them in all those poor countries around Israel.

And with such a huge intolerance the Jewish people dare to say that Palestinians are terrorists. I see how great example of tolerance they give to Palestinians, pretty hypocritical of Israel to behave like this and to allow this extremists to rule the streets.

I sure as hell know what countries I will never visit and guess who is on top of my list.

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29-12-2011, 11:21 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
It's important to keep things in perspective. Yes, there's religious craziness in Israel that deserves to be more widely known, which is why I started this thread. But the ultra-Orthodox, though growing in influence, still make up only about 12 percent of the population. More significantly, look at the reaction to what happened:

Quote:[From the article:]

The country was outraged. Naama’s picture has appeared on the front pages of all the major Israeli newspapers. . . .

Jews of varying degrees of orthodoxy and secularity headed to Beit Shemesh on Tuesday evening to join local residents in a protest numbering in the thousands against religious violence and fanaticism.

For many Israelis, this is not a fight over one little girl’s walk to school. It is a struggle that could shape the future character and soul of the country, against ultra-Orthodox zealots who have been increasingly encroaching on the public sphere with their strict interpretation of modesty rules, enforcing gender segregation and the exclusion of women.

Contrast that with the infamous 2002 girls' school fire in Mecca. In brief: Girls' school. Fire. Girls desperately try to escape the burning building. And the religious police lock them in. Why?

Quote:[M]embers of the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV), also known as Mutaween, would not allow the girls to escape or to be saved from the fire because they were "not properly covered", and the mutaween did not want physical contact to take place between the girls and the civil defense forces for fear of sexual enticement . . . [it was] variously [reported] that the girls were locked in by the police, or forced back into the building.

Fourteen girls died.

This actually got into the Saudi papers, resulting in a "very rare public criticism" of the CPVPV. But were there tens of thousands of outraged Saudis marching in the streets? Was there one outraged Saudi marching in the streets? Not on your life.

So there's a difference.

Israel is being torn by internal conflict on all fronts. I can only hope that rational minds prevail.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-12-2011, 11:26 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
The common thread, though, is that religion and government are commingled. That never goes well, not for Israel, not for Saudi Arabia, not for anyone.

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29-12-2011, 11:49 AM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
(29-12-2011 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  The common thread, though, is that religion and government are commingled. That never goes well, not for Israel, not for Saudi Arabia, not for anyone.

I couldn't agree more.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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29-12-2011, 12:17 PM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
I was lurking in the forums for a while now and decided to finally register, and this is a good opportunity since I also live in Israel and wanted to comment on this.

The funny thing is, that those sick Haredi actually think that they're healthy. I don't know what is so healthy in thinking about 7 years old girls as sexually enticing. They're so horny at this point, that I wouldn't be surprised if they start terrorizing babies next because they can't look at them without getting a hard on.

The Government seriously needs to do something about them AND the religious coercion is Israel. I'm sure there's a way to separate the religion from the state as much as possible, without harming the Israeli nationality.
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29-12-2011, 03:19 PM
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
(29-12-2011 12:17 PM)Vlad Wrote:  I was lurking in the forums for a while now and decided to finally register, and this is a good opportunity since I also live in Israel and wanted to comment on this.

The funny thing is, that those sick Haredi actually think that they're healthy. I don't know what is so healthy in thinking about 7 years old girls as sexually enticing. They're so horny at this point, that I wouldn't be surprised if they start terrorizing babies next because they can't look at them without getting a hard on.

The Government seriously needs to do something about them AND the religious coercion is Israel. I'm sure there's a way to separate the religion from the state as much as possible, without harming the Israeli nationality.

Barukh ha-ba, Vlad. And thanks for your insider perspective. I hope you're right that religion and government will eventually become more separate in Israel rather than closer together.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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30-12-2011, 02:57 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2011 03:03 PM by shiranl.)
RE: Religious insanity in Israel
(29-12-2011 05:26 AM)Filox Wrote:  And they call themselves intelligent and educated people. They are no better than all those poor, ignorant Muslims that surround them in all those poor countries around Israel.

Yes, we call ourselves educated. How many Nobel Prizes Saudi Arabia have won over the years and how many Israel? Yes, in your standarts- we are better. Because unlike all those poor countries we actually condenm those fenomenons, we defenatley don't legalize or encourege them and they are NOT part of the general society and culture. Like every country we have our own internal problems, but I don't see you call all the other countries in the world uneducated, isn't it?

Quote:And with such a huge intolerance the Jewish people dare to say that Palestinians are terrorists. I see how great example of tolerance they give to Palestinians, pretty hypocritical of Israel to behave like this and to allow this extremists to rule the streets.

Well, yes we "dare" to say they are terrorists since they bomb our cities, they blow themselves inside our malls, restuarants, hotels and busses, they run over street walkers with cars on purpose and they murder mom, dad and their 3 children in their house while they asleep. How do you call all those stuff if not terror?
"Israel" behave like this? lucky for all of us, it never got to be that big.

Quote:I sure as hell know what countries I will never visit and guess who is on top of my list.

Good.

I hate those events as much as you do, actually- even more then you do. You all are just observers, I actually need to live with all those stuff. But I will not allow in any case to use those events to bash my country around.
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