Religious objections to IVF
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02-12-2014, 06:34 AM
Religious objections to IVF
Since my husband and I have become pregnant through IVF (yay!!), and I've been open about this experience because I don't think infertility should be a shameful thing. It's a medical condition. Why should I be ashamed?

Anyway - because I'm open about it - people feel warranted in telling me about their religious objections to the process. I find their objections odd.

1) IVF babies are denied the dignity of being conceived through sexual congress.
2) IVF babies have more genetic problems
3) there is no "reciprocal love" between a man and a woman through this sexless act
4) some IVF procedures don't work
5) some embryos are destroyed or fail to make it

....to name a few.

Huh? Dignity is literally defined as "the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect." what does sex have to do with dignity? Further, how can - on a philosophical level - conception be either dignified or undignified?

IVF babies/disabilities - I can't find any data to back this up.

There is no love? Is it me or does the church have a very narrow idea of what constitutes love? It seems like the ONLY way you can express love is through sex. Huh? So holding hands, communicating, accepting the other's limitations, sacrificing for eachother isn't showing love? I would argue that inconvenient and sometimes painful and unpleasant steps required to have a child together by means of IVF can be, and often is, the result of a much more deliberate and reciprocally loving act than sexual intercourse.

And some IVF embryos don't make it? Do they realize this outcome is no different than what happens naturally? Most infertile couples aren't having issues with natural fertilization. They are having issues with inplantation. Endometriosis, clotting factors, etc.

I just don't understand these arguments at all. Like, I can't even see the logic in them at all, never mind just flawed logic.
Anyone help me out here?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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02-12-2014, 06:43 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
1) Like children really want to dwell on the fact that their parents have sex ...

Congratulations on getting pregnant by the way. My brother and his wife have been trying for ages and now my sister-in-law has started her menopause. My parents offered to pay for IVF but they turned it down. Everyone at church told my sister-in-law that they had prayed for her and that she was soon going to have children. They are now trying to adopt. My parents aren't going to be grandparents because some arseholes at a church wanted to momentarily feel better about themselves when confronted with someone else's medical condition.
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02-12-2014, 06:53 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
They have to spew this crap, because that's what they were told by their pastor. There are many different contorted stories that they will make up just to make sure their version of the story holds up.

If it is gods will to have a baby it has to be natural, anything against this must be going against gods will and you will have problems. Just like when we had solar eclipses thousands of years ago, it was the result of pissing off a god. Don't worry about understanding their arguments as they are not based on their research, but on what they've heard from other religious knuckleheads.

Congrats on the pregnancy!

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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02-12-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
Christianity has some major dysfunctional psychosis in regards to sex and having children. Best to let the crazies blather and disregard their religious psychosis.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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02-12-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:43 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  1) Like children really want to dwell on the fact that their parents have sex ...

Congratulations on getting pregnant by the way. My brother and his wife have been trying for ages and now my sister-in-law has started her menopause. My parents offered to pay for IVF but they turned it down. Everyone at church told my sister-in-law that they had prayed for her and that she was soon going to have children. They are now trying to adopt. My parents aren't going to be grandparents because some arseholes at a church wanted to momentarily feel better about themselves when confronted with someone else's medical condition.

Sorry to hear about your brother. The worst part is, when they do adopt, it will be because of the grace and blessing of god! Bowing

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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02-12-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
The church has some pretty whacky ideas regarding sex.
This is yet another way religion invades our privcy and tries to control us.
The points you mentioned in your post are nothing more than rude comments from uninformed sources.
If you respond to them at all, ask them why their god failed where science succeeded.
And Congrats!
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02-12-2014, 07:12 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Anyway - because I'm open about it - people feel warranted in telling me about their religious objections to the process. I find their objections odd.

1) IVF babies are denied the dignity of being conceived through sexual congress.
2) IVF babies have more genetic problems
3) there is no "reciprocal love" between a man and a woman through this sexless act
4) some IVF procedures don't work
5) some embryos are destroyed or fail to make it

The response: "We want this child and it will be loved no matter how it was conceived or what difficulties it may have. We undertook this 'sexless act' because of the reciprocal love we have for each other and I'm sorry you can't see that. If you can't see that this is bringing is joy and be happy for us, and our child, then you can kindly fuck off you ignorant fuck. We don't need your smug self-righteousness, we need people who are capable of seeing past their ignorance."

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02-12-2014, 07:23 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:55 AM)microterf Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 06:43 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  1) Like children really want to dwell on the fact that their parents have sex ...

Congratulations on getting pregnant by the way. My brother and his wife have been trying for ages and now my sister-in-law has started her menopause. My parents offered to pay for IVF but they turned it down. Everyone at church told my sister-in-law that they had prayed for her and that she was soon going to have children. They are now trying to adopt. My parents aren't going to be grandparents because some arseholes at a church wanted to momentarily feel better about themselves when confronted with someone else's medical condition.

Sorry to hear about your brother. The worst part is, when they do adopt, it will be because of the grace and blessing of god! Bowing

We looked at adoption. A lot of unethical conduct, and it's basically at the heart of it, human trafficking. Healthy babies cost more money to adopt. Not to mention the coercion and unethical nature of the concept of adoption can present. I hope your brother finds a reputable agency and I wish him luck.

One of the objections to IVF is the "money industry" of the process. um...adoption can be just if not more expensive than IVF.

Interesting book that exposes the corruption of this largely unregulated industry. http://books.google.com/books/about/The_...8DQTzDVFAC

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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02-12-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  1) IVF babies are denied the dignity of being conceived through sexual congress.
2) IVF babies have more genetic problems
3) there is no "reciprocal love" between a man and a woman through this sexless act
4) some IVF procedures don't work
5) some embryos are destroyed or fail to make it

....to name a few.

It seems to me that they are just trying to find ways to put you down and feel better about themselves. Pathetic people do that. It's easier to be judgemental than it is to be tolerant and understanding of others if it means that you don't have to improve yourself.

So if it wasn't IVF then it would be about something else.
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02-12-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  There is no love? Is it me or does the church have a very narrow idea of what constitutes love? It seems like the ONLY way you can express love is through sex.

Which opens another can of worms re: Jesus' love for mankind. Consider

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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