Religious objections to IVF
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02-12-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 02:31 PM)Rik Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 01:05 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I find the religious objection to IV as silly as the one to BC. My wife had and kind of still does have issues with me getting snipped.

Buoyancy Compensator?
Birth control, especially permanent surgical types.
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02-12-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Since my husband and I have become pregnant through IVF (yay!!), and I've been open about this experience because I don't think infertility should be a shameful thing. It's a medical condition. Why should I be ashamed?

Anyway - because I'm open about it - people feel warranted in telling me about their religious objections to the process. I find their objections odd.

1) IVF babies are denied the dignity of being conceived through sexual congress.
2) IVF babies have more genetic problems
3) there is no "reciprocal love" between a man and a woman through this sexless act
4) some IVF procedures don't work
5) some embryos are destroyed or fail to make it

....to name a few.

Huh? Dignity is literally defined as "the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect." what does sex have to do with dignity? Further, how can - on a philosophical level - conception be either dignified or undignified?

IVF babies/disabilities - I can't find any data to back this up.

There is no love? Is it me or does the church have a very narrow idea of what constitutes love? It seems like the ONLY way you can express love is through sex. Huh? So holding hands, communicating, accepting the other's limitations, sacrificing for eachother isn't showing love? I would argue that inconvenient and sometimes painful and unpleasant steps required to have a child together by means of IVF can be, and often is, the result of a much more deliberate and reciprocally loving act than sexual intercourse.

And some IVF embryos don't make it? Do they realize this outcome is no different than what happens naturally? Most infertile couples aren't having issues with natural fertilization. They are having issues with inplantation. Endometriosis, clotting factors, etc.

I just don't understand these arguments at all. Like, I can't even see the logic in them at all, never mind just flawed logic.
Anyone help me out here?

Congratulations to you and your hubby!

PS people really should mind their own business

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-12-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
Cathy, couldn’t stop thinking about your story.

[attachment=2410]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-12-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Since my husband and I have become pregnant through IVF (yay!!)

Fucking awesome Cathym! That is fantastic news ! Congratulations, If I recall you two crazy kids had been trying for a while so I'm super happy for you both!

If it's a girl you should totally name her after me! Whiskey Annabelle Debates is a fine, strong, feminine name.

Probably.


Really happy for you both!Heart

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-12-2014, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2014 04:48 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Since my husband and I have become pregnant through IVF (yay!!), and I've been open about this experience because I don't think infertility should be a shameful thing. It's a medical condition. Why should I be ashamed?

Anyway - because I'm open about it - people feel warranted in telling me about their religious objections to the process. I find their objections odd.

1) IVF babies are denied the dignity of being conceived through sexual congress.
2) IVF babies have more genetic problems
3) there is no "reciprocal love" between a man and a woman through this sexless act
4) some IVF procedures don't work
5) some embryos are destroyed or fail to make it

....to name a few.

Huh? Dignity is literally defined as "the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect." what does sex have to do with dignity? Further, how can - on a philosophical level - conception be either dignified or undignified?

IVF babies/disabilities - I can't find any data to back this up.

There is no love? Is it me or does the church have a very narrow idea of what constitutes love? It seems like the ONLY way you can express love is through sex. Huh? So holding hands, communicating, accepting the other's limitations, sacrificing for eachother isn't showing love? I would argue that inconvenient and sometimes painful and unpleasant steps required to have a child together by means of IVF can be, and often is, the result of a much more deliberate and reciprocally loving act than sexual intercourse.

And some IVF embryos don't make it? Do they realize this outcome is no different than what happens naturally? Most infertile couples aren't having issues with natural fertilization. They are having issues with inplantation. Endometriosis, clotting factors, etc.

I just don't understand these arguments at all. Like, I can't even see the logic in them at all, never mind just flawed logic.
Anyone help me out here?

So much fail. Where to start ?
1. > 50 of all "normal" pregnancies are spontaneously aborted by the greatest abortionist of all, (Jebus).
2. The church won't even allow termination in the case of rape. Are those children somehow possessed of less "dignity". "Dignity" (for Roman Catholics) is granted by virtue of a soul. They have one, (according to them), so they can STFU about that.
3. Is there evidence of the genetic problems. Maybe there is, but I never heard that from my dads OB friends.
4. There is plenty of "reciprocal love" in these marriages, and the fact that in normal circumstances these couples can't conceive is in no way correlated to quality of the relationship, and in fact it could be STRENGTHENED by the kids.
5. Most of their brains don't work. See #1.
6. See #1.

Tell them to mind their own fucking business. Tell them "Just think : more hands to put money in the collection baskets. Thumbsup "

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-12-2014, 07:17 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 03:59 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Cathy, couldn’t stop thinking about your story.

Honestly it doesn't bother me. The people who say iVF isn't an act of love or that it damages marriages clearly hasn't been through iVF. The iVF doesn't damage marriages - infertility does! The latter created by their so called loving god.


Ugh...seriously iPhone, stop capitalizing god!!!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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02-12-2014, 07:27 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 04:35 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Since my husband and I have become pregnant through IVF (yay!!)

Fucking awesome Cathym! That is fantastic news ! Congratulations, If I recall you two crazy kids had been trying for a while so I'm super happy for you both!

If it's a girl you should totally name her after me! Whiskey Annabelle Debates is a fine, strong, feminine name.

Probably.


Really happy for you both!Heart

Thank you! I will definitely name her after you. :-)
If it's a girl, her name will be Mia Rose.

Boy will be John (called Jack) Louis.

Yes - my hubs and I have been trying for 3-4 years

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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02-12-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
Plenty of time to pick out names, hahah, which are lovely by the way Smile

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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03-12-2014, 12:47 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
Science is stepping in where their bumbling miracle worker cannot.

Makes them uneasy in their superior pants when science bitch slaps Gawd.

Congratulations!
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03-12-2014, 02:05 AM
RE: Religious objections to IVF
(02-12-2014 08:32 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 06:34 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  There is no love? Is it me or does the church have a very narrow idea of what constitutes love? It seems like the ONLY way you can express love is through sex.

Which opens another can of worms re: Jesus' love for mankind. Consider

Jesus! You nasty beast!
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