Religious people, why do they come here?
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03-07-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 02:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  It's not an XTARD forum. Yes, xtians are welcome, but the banner at the top says "Atheist". If it were an Xtard forum, it would say "The Xtard Forum". The fact that others are welcome doesn't make it not an atheist forum.
No, kim got it right. If this is what you really meant, then your original point makes no sense at all.
I find that admitting when you're wrong gets a lot more respect than lying in an attempt to save face. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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03-07-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 02:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(03-07-2014 02:20 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  That isn't even a coherent definition.
If I said Love rules, would you understand what I mean?

Your statement is incoherent.

Quote:
Quote:To be clear, I didn't come up with it. That is why I point to scripture.

Quote:You might as well be pointing to Grimm's Fairy Tales.
You're dodging the issue.

Not in the least.

Quote: The issue is not whether the bible is fantasy.

That your fairy tale book is fantasy is QUITE relevant.

Quote:The issue is I did not invent the definition that God is Love.
Quote:That doesn't make it any less incoherent and nonsensical. And I have already demonstrated that your definition is impossible. Mass murderers cannot be equated, or especially DEFINED, as "love". It's fucking stupid.

Quote:Again, I did not make this up. It is in scripture.

Doesn't matter whether you made it up or not. It's still stupid as fuck.

Quote:[quote]And I point to your same scripture, at the same fairy tale monster in your fairy tale book, as it is depicted to commit and command mass genocide, and I declare that there's no fucking way that your mythical creature is "love".
Well at least you give solid reason for your conviction why God is not Love.

I don't claim that "your gawd isn't love", moron. You haven't demonstrated your fairy tale monster to exist at all. NO, you're not going to quibble over what you think your fairy tale monster is LIKE, when you haven't even substantiated with EVIDENCE your claim that it EXISTS AT ALL. No end runs around your burden of proof, asshole.

Quote:However, you are referring to the Old Testament before the change in the Godhead, see Revelations 12:9-10.

Your fairy tale mumbo-jumbo is utterly meaningless to me and to any rational person. You might as well be quoting out of fucking Harry Potter or Grimm's Fairy Tales.


Quote: Hence your anger is tantamount

No anger there, moron. Simply calling you on your bullshit.

Quote: to support for the Christ and the New Testament.

Not in the least. You fairy tale is meaningless to me.

Quote: Do you find Christ and his self sacrificing Love objectionable?

I find your fairy tale story to be preposterous.


[quot]e
Please spare me the issue of whether or not Jesus existed as told in the Gospel

No, I won't. You can't show that such a person existed. No end runs around your burden of proof, asshole.

Quote: even as you claim your hatred for the Old Testament God

Hey, you imbecile, it's impossible to hate something you don't believe to exist. FUCK, but you are stupid.


Quote: is based on something non existent. I just want to know if you recognize Love in the Christ, just as you don't recognize love in the God of the Old Testament.

I don't believe or recognize ANY of the bullshit in your fairy tale stories. What the fuck do you think you are doing here?

Quote:
Quote:No really. You are on record saying you welcome any definition that is presented.

Quote:I didn't say anything about "welcoming" any definition. "Destroy" is more like it.
So you would destroy the image of God presented in the Christ?

Do you have some idiot apolotard coaching you, and telling you to say this stupid shit? Because he's making an utter fool of you.

You can't have it both ways, mnoron -- you DENY your OT fairy tale monster -- which according to your shit book is a "SIN" -- and now you claim it and your zombie-boy are one -- which means that you are saying that your jeebus is the same person as the mythical OT mass murderer. You can't have things both ways. But here you are trying, which is plenty reason for any sane person to tell you you are full of shit and to take a fucking hike.



Quote: Why? Are you better than him?

"Him" doesn't exist.

Quote:Why such devotion to cynicism?

No cynicism there. Just calling you on your bullshit and your lies.

Quote: Would you despise being served by the Love that is seen in the Christ?

Your question is utterly meaningless.

Quote:
Quote:Are you now going to be hypocritical
Quote:Nothing hypocritical at all abut pointing out the folly of your "definition".
You have not pointed out the folly of the scriptural definition of God as Love.

Yes, I did, asshole. I pointed out that your mythical fairy tale monster is depicted as perpetrating and commanding mass murder. That's PLENTY to disprove your bullshit claim that it is "love".




Quote: You simply stated that the God of the Old Testament was not Love.

And you are seriously trying to quibble over which of the many versions of your fairy tale monster that YOUR fairy tale book depicts is the right one? FUCK OFF.


Quote: To me, you simply endorsed the Christ over Satan whether you realize that or not.

That's because you're a delusional presup fucktard who refuses to admit that your bullshit assertions have been utterly destroyed.

Quote:
Quote: and say this definition is bullshit?

Quote:I just did, moron. It IS.
So how exactly is the Christ not Love?
Quote: Or are you saying empathy does not exist?

Quote:This has nothing at all to do with empathy. Your "definition" is completely invalid. It's so wrong, it's Not Even Wrong.
Well, there you have it. You simply deny that empathy is God and rules as the moral impetus in mankind.

Oh, so you finally get it. Fucking idiot.


Quote: Even though without empathy you could not be mad about genocide. More hypocrisy.

I don't deny empathy, asshole. I deny that empathy, love, or any other emotion equates to your fairy tale monster. FUCK, but you are a moron.

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03-07-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 03:13 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  What is your basis for saying that God is empathy?
I identify it as being common moral truth amongst mankind regardless of race or creed. It serves the greater good in my personal experience, and it is a power that can be seen contrary to and therefore restraining the self serving will of mankind. It is bigger or greater than any single person yet able to serve all individually. It is in spiritual metaphor, the Light of man.
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03-07-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 03:29 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(03-07-2014 03:13 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  What is your basis for saying that God is empathy?
I identify it as being common moral truth amongst mankind regardless of race or creed. It serves the greater good in my personal experience, and it is a power that can be seen contrary to and therefore restraining the self serving will of mankind. It is bigger or greater than any single person yet able to serve all individually. It is in spiritual metaphor, the Light of man.

But is that not in itself the self-serving will of mankind as you refer to it. It's in our interest as a species and as individuals to act with empathy as it helps to ensure our own survival in the majority of situations - if this were not the case then empathy would not have evolved...
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03-07-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(02-07-2014 09:48 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 07:24 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  In other words, we use reason and logic (and evidence) whereas you don't.Check.
Not at all. I'm just saying that we reason differently based upon the differences in those things we hold to be true. There is plenty of evidence of Love and good reason to trust in Love. As scripture says, God is Love.


Quote:Except that you haven't, and you can't, point out any hypocrisy in our position AT ALL, idiot.
On the contrary, I am always willing to point out any contradictions in your reasoning. Number one is that you claim there is no God, based on your arbitrary definition of God (a superstition). You therefore make up what the term God pertains to, and then discount the existence of such based on that made up definition. However God according to scripture is the moral goodness that is the empathy in mankind. And there is no question that such a Love exists.

ah you had me until you brought scripture into the conversation. Since the scripture is fabricated around older greek myths, liberal usage of pseudepigrapha, cute parables and allegorical writings, how does one use this as the basis for their methodology to comprehend the world around us?

and actually there is a question that such divine love exists...ask the 14 million murdered jews, the millions of born terminally ill children that have died, or heck, the worldwide massacre of all life except 6 or so the fairy tale goes. I won't even bother disproving the great flood that never happened as that horse is long dead...


what else you got?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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03-07-2014, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2014 05:30 PM by childeye.)
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 03:25 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(03-07-2014 02:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  If I said Love rules, would you understand what I mean?

Your statement is incoherent.
So you don't know what it means? That is rather hard to swallow.
Quote:You're dodging the issue.

Quote:Not in the least.
On the contrary, you are utterly changing the subject.

Quote: The issue is not whether the bible is fantasy.

Quote:That your fairy tale book is fantasy is QUITE relevant.
But this is not the issue. I'm simply saying that the phrase God is Love was penned before I was born. And that is because you keep on asserting I made it up. It doesn't matter if the scriptures are real or fantasy.



Quote:I don't claim that "your gawd isn't love", moron. You haven't demonstrated your fairy tale monster to exist at all. NO, you're not going to quibble over what you think your fairy tale monster is LIKE, when you haven't even substantiated with EVIDENCE your claim that it EXISTS AT ALL. No end runs around your burden of proof, asshole.
Uh that makes no sense. I am claiming that God is Love not what He is like. That is why I describe Him as empathy. Moreover, I am claiming that He is everyone's God not just mine since empathy rules as man's moral goodness. Since you have already said you do not deny empathy exists, there is no burden of proof necessary. You simply have an aversion for the term God.

Quote:Your fairy tale mumbo-jumbo is utterly meaningless to me and to any rational person. You might as well be quoting out of fucking Harry Potter or Grimm's Fairy Tales.
I honestly don't believe you. You know full well that Love is the greatest of all values. It is the measure of morality. You can't be that stupid.



Quote:No anger there, moron. Simply calling you on your bullshit.
To value Love as God is not bullshit.

Quote:Not in the least. You fairy tale is meaningless to me.
I've presented you with no fairytale, only facts. You simply claim your absurd misdirections so as to not face those facts.


Quote:I find your fairy tale story to be preposterous.
Okay, show me what fairytale I presented word for word, otherwise if you can't produce it, admit you're a liar.


Quote:No, I won't. You can't show that such a person existed.

I don't care. It has nothing to do with the facts. It only matters that it is true that a self sacrificing Love is the morality of mankind. W hile sacrificing others for one's self is immoral. Is that so hard for you to admit?
Quote: even as you claim your hatred for the Old Testament God

Quote:Hey, you imbecile, it's impossible to hate something you don't believe to exist.
I just said that. Glad you can agree.


Quote: is based on something non existent. I just want to know if you recognize Love in the Christ, just as you don't recognize love in the God of the Old Testament.

Quote:I don't believe or recognize ANY of the bullshit in your fairy tale stories. What the fuck do you think you are doing here?
I'm asking if you trust in Love. I'm not asking if you believe in scripture.

Quote:So you would destroy the image of God presented in the Christ?

Quote:Do you have some idiot apolotard coaching you, and telling you to say this stupid shit? Because he's making an utter fool of you.

You can't have it both ways, mnoron -- you DENY your OT fairy tale monster -- which according to your shit book is a "SIN" -- and now you claim it and your zombie-boy are one -- which means that you are saying that your jeebus is the same person as the mythical OT mass murderer. You can't have things both ways. But here you are trying, which is plenty reason for any sane person to tell you you are full of shit and to take a fucking hike.
You have a lot of misconceptions all based on your flawed understanding of scripture. The problem is that every time I try to show you something about that, to address your valid concerns, you claim it is a fairytale and therefore you don't have to listen. That is not reasonable.



Quote: Why? Are you better than him?

Quote:"Him" doesn't exist.
That doesn't matter. I already said he is an image of God. Let me put it this way. If Christ was real, would you trust this man?

Quote:Why such devotion to cynicism?

No cynicism there. Just calling you on your bullshit and your lies.

Quote: Would you despise being served by the Love that is seen in the Christ?

Quote:Your question is utterly meaningless.
You are evading. What are you afraid of?

Quote: You have not pointed out the folly of the scriptural definition of God as Love.

Quote:Yes, I did, asshole. I pointed out that your mythical fairy tale monster is depicted as perpetrating and commanding mass murder. That's PLENTY to disprove your bullshit claim that it is "love".
No, you misunderstand. I am not saying that you have not presented evidence that the Old Testament image of God is not Loving. It could also easily be argued that it was not Love that let such wickedness exist. I don't care to debate the constructs of such speculation. I wasn't there and neither were you. I'm saying you cannot use a fairytale to disprove that God is Love. It does not prove that Love does not rule as the moral goodness in mankind.


Quote: You simply stated that the God of the Old Testament was not Love.

Quote:And you are seriously trying to quibble over which of the many versions of your fairy tale monster that YOUR fairy tale book depicts is the right one? FUCK OFF.
Not at all. I just wanted to point out that I did not invent the definition.


Quote: To me, you simply endorsed the Christ over Satan whether you realize that or not.

Quote:That's because you're a delusional presup fucktard who refuses to admit that your bullshit assertions have been utterly destroyed.
Oh I guess you're right. Love can't be God because you said so. How stupid of me.
Quote: So how exactly is the Christ not Love?

Well, there you have it. You simply deny that empathy is God and rules as the moral impetus in mankind.

Oh, so you finally get it. Fucking idiot.


Quote: Even though without empathy you could not be mad about genocide. More hypocrisy.

Quote:I don't deny empathy, asshole. I deny that empathy, love, or any other emotion equates to your fairy tale monster. FUCK, but you are a moron.
So you don't deny empathy exists as the moral goodness in mankind. You simply have an aversion for the term God. Well that is essentially all I've been saying. In fact that is what a True Christian believes, that empathy is the moral goodness in mankind. That is what we see in the Christ., a supreme empathy that is self sacrificing.
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03-07-2014, 06:22 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2014 06:25 PM by childeye.)
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 03:37 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 09:48 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not at all. I'm just saying that we reason differently based upon the differences in those things we hold to be true. There is plenty of evidence of Love and good reason to trust in Love. As scripture says, God is Love.


On the contrary, I am always willing to point out any contradictions in your reasoning. Number one is that you claim there is no God, based on your arbitrary definition of God (a superstition). You therefore make up what the term God pertains to, and then discount the existence of such based on that made up definition. However God according to scripture is the moral goodness that is the empathy in mankind. And there is no question that such a Love exists.

ah you had me until you brought scripture into the conversation. Since the scripture is fabricated around older greek myths, liberal usage of pseudepigrapha, cute parables and allegorical writings, how does one use this as the basis for their methodology to comprehend the world around us?


what else you got?
Actually, you are mistaken. This must be contagious. I mentioned scripture to point
out that I did not invent the definition of God is Love nor did I invent that Love is the moral goodness in mankind. Nor am I claiming I believe the same because I read it in scripture. So if you are denying that God is Love simply because scripture says so, that would be shall I say an indication of a prejudice.

Quote: how does one use this as the basis for their methodology to comprehend the world around us?
I would not know. If I understand scripture correctly, it basically agrees with you.

Quote:and actually there is a question that such divine love exists...ask the 14 million murdered jews, the millions of born terminally ill children that have died, or heck, the worldwide massacre of all life except 6 or so the fairy tale goes.
Yes, well that is the theme of the bible as a whole. Is Love Eternal? Is Love God, the Eternal Spirit? I don't have to know whether the bible is true, or even need to know how to read, to ask that question.
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03-07-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
Can I ask a dumb question? I just read a couple pages of this ( I can't that time back, than you) and am wondering something. Are you defining god as the feeling of empathy and love? Or are you saying that empathy and love are characteristics that god has?
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03-07-2014, 08:00 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(24-06-2014 03:44 PM)Dom Wrote:  We keep getting religious folk here. Some come and stay a long time, some drive by and leave a note.

Some are good to talk to - these usually leave after a bit, I think because they get overwhelmed by all the people addressing them, looking for a real conversation with a theist.

Some come here and get yelled at for months because they are condescending and full of hatred.

So what are they getting out of it?

Maybe some of them want to be apologists and try to sharpen their skills here.

Probably some of them want to convert us and shine in front of their gods.

I would bet some just get off on the adrenalin they get from walking as known theists among a bunch of heathens.

And of course, their gods give them rewards for getting insulted and attacked while they are are doing the honorable thing, spreading the god's name among heathens.

That's what I can come up with.

What do you think?

I think that God-believers come just to spread their foolishness and ignorance.

I suppose that a fair amount of trolls come just to make fun of us atheists.
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03-07-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Religious people, why do they come here?
(03-07-2014 03:16 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(03-07-2014 02:23 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  It's not an XTARD forum. Yes, xtians are welcome, but the banner at the top says "Atheist". If it were an Xtard forum, it would say "The Xtard Forum". The fact that others are welcome doesn't make it not an atheist forum.
No, kim got it right. If this is what you really meant, then your original point makes no sense at all.
I find that admitting when you're wrong gets a lot more respect than lying in an attempt to save face. Drinking Beverage

I did no such thing, fuck you.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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