Religulous (with Bill Maher)
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06-05-2012, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2012 04:20 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
(06-05-2012 08:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(06-05-2012 04:59 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It is darned obvious that what became the Christian faith was a heady, plagiarized mix of Judaic, Mithraic, and other pagan myths. The existence of all these characters, so near identical in their exploits, constitutes an ancient universal mythos that has been hidden from or not acknowledged by Christians.
Yes. But that's only half the problem. The entire "Orthodoxy" of Christianity, (which we now know, NEVER really was "orthodox", but each element was actually a raging humanoid controversy from day 1) is 99.99 % of the time presented as, (the fallacy), that it's "unique" character, and "special" defining determinant, is/was that it was an "original" monotheism. It was NOT. The cult of Yahweh Sabaoth, was built on the "Covenant". The Covenant was not that they "believed in one god", but that they would "worship" one god, (the God of the Armies, -- the Lord of Hosts), NOT because they believed in only one god, but becasue this one would help them win their battles. The first half of the real story, is also not acknowledged by religionists.
I agree.

It is enlightening to realise that Christians were not the only participants at the council of Nicaea, as to do so gives us some appreciation of how stories from other cults were incorporated into Christianity.

There were recurrent debates among the early communities as to whether Jesus was God, a spirit, a mortal man, or all three. Arius, a presbyter from Libya, was gaining followers around the empire, teaching that “There was a time when the Son was not.” Others believed the Son was of the same substance as the Father and co-eternal with him. The argument spread, threatening to rip the church in two. Constantine disapproved of the conjecture and called the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE to close the fissure. This was the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, and Constantine presided over it, which is proof of how close church and state had become. It resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit were all of the same substance, a doctrine that became known as the Nicene Creed. This was one of the only times in history a person (Jesus) was proclaimed a god by a vote. Those who voted against it were banished. Prior to the Council of Nicaea, Jesus had most often been perceived as an intermediary to God, after the council the new orthodoxy decided he actually was God. The heart of Christianity was created; the human and the divine met in a man called Jesus. The Nicaean formula quite clearly wasn’t based on Yeshua. It was nothing more than a contortionist creation invented to unify some of the views of Jesus circulating at the time.

A little advertised fact is that there were not only Christian commanders present at this council, but also leaders from many other cults, sects and religions, including those of Apollo, Demeter/Ceres, Dionysus, Janus, Jupiter, Zeus, Osiris and Isis. The council needed to unify these competing cults under one “catholic” church to be controlled by the Constantine government. The gods of these other cults were subjugated under the name of the new god, Jesus Christ. J Aschera ponts out that “Jesus” represented the Hesus of the druids, Joshua /Jesus of the Israelites, Horus/Iusa of the Egyptians and Ies/Iesios of the Dionysians/Samothracians, and “Christ” represented Krishna/Christos of India, the “anointed one” of the Jews and KRST of Egypt. Thus the council of Nicaea blended the religious formulas of China, India, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Rome and Palestine into a single religion suitable for all. Forget Christmas; the Council of Nicaea was the event that marked the true birth of Jesus Christ.
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07-05-2012, 11:25 AM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
Great movie. It actually played a small part in my deconversion.
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07-05-2012, 11:56 AM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
I liked religulous, but I didn't go into expecting anything more than a comedian making fun of the religious, and that's what I got. I generally like Bill Maher, we don't agree on everything (economy, guns, e.g.), but we agree on religion and personal liberty. I enjoy his show on HBO.

Justin

"What religion am I? Well, I'm a practicing none of your ******* business." Ron Swanson
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07-05-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
(07-05-2012 11:56 AM)Justin Wrote:  I liked religulous, but I didn't go into expecting anything more than a comedian making fun of the religious, and that's what I got. I generally like Bill Maher, we don't agree on everything (economy, guns, e.g.), but we agree on religion and personal liberty. I enjoy his show on HBO.

Justin
I enjoy when he comments on religion, and his comedy is usually pretty funny.

He did have some points that I had never heard before- like those discussed in this thread about the story of Jesus being a story copied from other sources. He also made several good points throughout the film.

But aside from the documentary, I've only watched his show here and there aside from just short clips. I don't really like his show enough to watch it, and as a show personality I don't like him.
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07-05-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
My son turned me on to this a couple weeks ago, I enjoyed it.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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07-05-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
I found it enjoyable, but unconvincing compared to "youtube atheists" and the like. I didn't like the ending much, as he really failed to support the conclusions within the main body of the story. It had its good parts, but I would tend to point people who think somewhat like me to people like potholer54 for a bit more meat.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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08-05-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
As much valuable information as this movie gave me, the biggie being what everone is touching on, Jim Jefferies has the funniest atheist humour out there. I can watch the 9 minute panda youtube clip over and over. If you have not heard of him...check it out!!

“Some people never go crazy, what truly horrible lives they must live." ~Charles Bukowski
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08-05-2012, 02:49 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
(08-05-2012 02:35 PM)HiLiKuS Wrote:  As much valuable information as this movie gave me, the biggie being what everone is touching on, Jim Jefferies has the funniest atheist humour out there. I can watch the 9 minute panda youtube clip over and over. If you have not heard of him...check it out!!
that bit wth the speaking in tongues on religulous made me wee a little!!

Evil_monster
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08-05-2012, 03:06 PM
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
(08-05-2012 02:35 PM)HiLiKuS Wrote:  As much valuable information as this movie gave me, the biggie being what everone is touching on, Jim Jefferies has the funniest atheist humour out there. I can watch the 9 minute panda youtube clip over and over. If you have not heard of him...check it out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-RJeqyh-vI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPvSo8AYdM


As far as Religulous, does anyone really believe that the gay guy is now straight? I have a family member who's gay, and he's been asked by other members of the family to attend religious seminars to "turn straight". I love my family, but I hate how pathetic they can be by following magic books. I'm glad Bill included that guy in the movie.
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08-05-2012, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 04:56 PM by kineo.)
RE: Religulous (with Bill Maher)
(08-05-2012 03:06 PM)Questioning Wrote:  
(08-05-2012 02:35 PM)HiLiKuS Wrote:  As much valuable information as this movie gave me, the biggie being what everone is touching on, Jim Jefferies has the funniest atheist humour out there. I can watch the 9 minute panda youtube clip over and over. If you have not heard of him...check it out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-RJeqyh-vI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WPvSo8AYdM


As far as Religulous, does anyone really believe that the gay guy is now straight? I have a family member who's gay, and he's been asked by other members of the family to attend religious seminars to "turn straight". I love my family, but I hate how pathetic they can be by following magic books. I'm glad Bill included that guy in the movie.

These people often really believe this works. It may convince a dedicated gay person to ignore their homosexuality- but it will not turn them straight, no matter how much they tell themselves they're "cured". A person who is convinced that they're cured I would imagine must deal with immense guilt in battling who they are. That cannot be good.

I have an unfounded theory that some bisexuals could have completed these types of programs and been able to successfully repress homosexual thoughts/feelings/desires without so many problems as someone who is a 6 on the Kinsey scale.

[Image: 800px-Kinsey_Scale.svg.png]

Perhaps someone who is a 1 or a 2 could be convinced of being cured for long enough to call the program successful, but I'd imagine it's still psychologically dangerous for that person and increasingly dangerous and damaging for anyone that leans more homosexual or is exclusively homosexual. Not to mention the false and completely misguided hope it gives to families members of gay people, thinking that they will come back cured and the problem will "go away".

A bisexual person can often marry in a hetero relationship and be happy in a loving marriage for life (but it doesn't change who that person is). It's not difficult for me to imagine that these types of programs preying on bi people (and of course gay, anyone in the LGBT community) and casting them as the successful cases they so like to advertise. Who knows though, completely unfounded ideas are probably more damaging than helpful. In any case, these programs only cause more problems for homosexual people in an already difficult environment in the US. I hope they get put out of our misery soon.
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