Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
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02-05-2017, 08:57 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
Well we can all agree that missiles are an investment for everybody! The gift that keeps on giving.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-05-2017, 08:59 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 08:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  As I see it, you're trying to qualify or disqualify people on the basis of an emotional reaction to their health situation.

You're dodging the question.

Who decides what constitutes an "acceptable" medical condition?

(02-05-2017 08:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Now if you're in favor of a socialized medicine solution, you're willing to enforce your emotionally derived solution on everyone else, regardless of how they feel about it.

As opposed to a financially derived solution?

I'm advocating that all persons are deserving of equal health care.

(02-05-2017 08:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  If you're in favor of a more capitalistic approach, then there wouldn't be any form of free medical care, and you'd have to pay for it out of your own pocket.

No, the capitalistic approach has brought us to this situation.

(02-05-2017 08:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And again, as I see it, neither system is a perfect solution.

I doubt there is one.

Nobody is looking for a perfect system. Just a system that benefits, or tries to benefit, everyone. Not just the rich folks.

Stay healthy.

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02-05-2017, 08:59 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 08:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  So do you think everybody should pay the same?

Nobody is claiming that. What is BULLSHIT that the asshole "die quickly" fuckfaces of the GOP are doing is LYING to everyone trying to claim we want a Stalin like nanny state.

We are saying that between the ability for say a billionaire to afford something vs a fry cook, or even middle class factory worker, between the two, if they get something like cancer, the billionaire will be able to absorb the costs far more easily.

I agree, we should not be paying the same. The more you make the more you should pay. I am really fucking sick of the idea that because you make more, that entitles you to be fucking dicks to those with less.

Now you name me one human being EVER in the history of our species that has never gotten sick. When you can do that, then come back and bitch. Otherwise accept that health care should be treated as a right and not a luxury.

None of what I just typed is claiming we should become Castro's Cuba, so please don't even try that crap with me.

Take your Ayan Rand crap and shove it.

Seriously, you are mentally disturbed if you think "can't afford it, sucks to be you" is anything close to humane. You'd make a great Somalian warlord with that attitude.

How about this, break up the fucking monopolies of corporations? How about we stop caring so much about billionaires and start listening to workers?

I don't think you understand how counter productive far too much of the top 1% is. Nobody is suggesting, or should suggest you can rid the world of the private sector. But no sorry, I am tired of the bullshit "we cant afford it" crap coming from billionaires.

Same fucking crybaby mentality car companies had when Nadar pointed out RIGHTFULLY how unsafe cars were. Billionaires CAN afford to change, huge difference between "cant" and "don't want to". Billionaires can change, they just don't want to.

If my mom, who was a retired teacher, can budget her money to support both of us, then a billionaire has no fucking excuse for not finding a way to make health care more affordable for workers.

DON'T expect me to feel sorry for billionaires.

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02-05-2017, 09:03 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
@Brian 37

Stalin state could be described by many words but nanny isn't one of them. I heard of no nanny which caused death of millions.

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02-05-2017, 09:11 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
Socialised medicine makes perfect sense to me. Why shouldn't taxes be spent on such a good cause? Sure, some people make poor life choices. Or have those choices made for them. When crap food is cheaper than good food, and when you're dirt poor, you're gonna get food related health issues. It's that simple.

So what you do is you address both curative medicine and preventative medicine. Prevention is way cheaper than cure, so you focus largely on that, but you also do not neglect an national health insurance scheme, so that those who can't afford e.g. diabetes drugs can be covered.

How is it that spending more on other things tax-wise is fine, but spending something on medicine is of the devil? I really would like to understand. The only people who have an interest in healthcare costs being sky-high are... medical insurance companies? As far as I can see. Why should they be given carte blanche to do what they like?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-05-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 07:45 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The GOP fix for the healthcare system:

video

"Bill would allow insurance companies to require people with higher healthcare costs to contribute more to the insurance pool that helps offset these costs, thereby reducing the costs to those people who lead good lives, they're healthy..."

Granted, later in the clip he talks specifically about people who are ill through no fault of their own. However it is clear what the focus of the issue is, and it is not the people who need medical treatment.

I am not super-rich. I rarely need healthcare. But I don't mind the idea of a stranger, anywhere in this country, evading bankruptcy for falling sick, because I paid an extra dime. Why does this concept seem to offend Republicans so much?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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02-05-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 09:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  Socialised medicine makes perfect sense to me. Why shouldn't taxes be spent on such a good cause? Sure, some people make poor life choices. Or have those choices made for them. When crap food is cheaper than good food, and when you're dirt poor, you're gonna get food related health issues. It's that simple.

So what you do is you address both curative medicine and preventative medicine. Prevention is way cheaper than cure, so you focus largely on that, but you also do not neglect an national health insurance scheme, so that those who can't afford e.g. diabetes drugs can be covered.

How is it that spending more on other things tax-wise is fine, but spending something on medicine is of the devil? I really would like to understand. The only people who have an interest in healthcare costs being sky-high are... medical insurance companies? As far as I can see. Why should they be given carte blanche to do what they like?

The corporate welfare queens DO want socialism, they've been building corporate socialism since Reagan's deregulation and bullshit "don't tax the rich".

The rich want socialized profits only in their pockets when they gamble and win, and socialize the losses on tax payers when they lose.

I have still yet to get any semblance of a good response when I ask a GOP or Libertarian economic right, "Do you value voting"

They always say yes but then bitch when others vote. So what they are really arguing is it is right only when they get what they want.

If the rich always got everything right we would not have had the 1988 1 day crash under Reagan. We wouldn't have had the dot com bubble or Enron under mostly GOP congress even though Clinton was president. And if the rich always got everything right, we wouldn't have had 8 years of Bush end up with a triple whammy bank, car, housing crash.

The GOP since Reagan have held ON average of all three branches, ON AVERAGE have had most of that power. They've controlled the Supreme Court most of that time, which allowed the court to side more with corporations in that period, which in turn allowed lawmakers to write more laws to deregulate and exploit resources for short term gain. It has allowed corporate tax breaks in that time that add to the dept over decades, which ends up with a recession like we had.

The economic and social right wing, cant have it both ways. You cannot say you value freedom, then bitch when others vote. Either you want an open society or you merely want power.

The worst part of the GOP in that time, is that they are masters at getting supporters to vote against their own economic interests.

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02-05-2017, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2017 10:47 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
My 2c from someone who lives in a country with public health care and where it (more or less) works:

Pre existing condition:
Afaik for the public insurance its irrelevant.
The private insurance (for middle class and upwards, anyone who can afford to pay for each family member separately, instead of having the complete family covered with your workers insurance) asks for this before signing contract and will not cover.

The whole system is based on the notion that the more healthy people (who are less sick and cause less cost to the health care system) pay off the less healthy. Its because everyone pays the same fee, but if you need more treatment than someone else, its covered. Its a planned and inherent imbalance. Thats why its called "social". Thats how social contracts work. Anyone who doesnt understand this or doesnt want it that way, doesnt understand what being "social" is (imho!).
Being social is more than just being "fair". It is giving up (some of) your advantage over someone else, in order to even up this persons outlook on life and by doing so to improve your life too in the long run (not having to live amongst so many ill people and being hurt by your empathy towards them).

I also agree with the notion that capitalism and individualism, particularly the refusal to question the absoluteness of those two "holy american cows" is the root cause of not grasping this. If you look at Germany during the Bismarck era, capitalism ruled, largely unchecked. Result: Working masses living in misery. Once Bismarck installed social security, amongst them public health care, even the capitalists and upper class realized that a healthy working force is what benefits everyone. No business man in Germany will question today that he is going to pay for his workers social security.
(Having to, by agreeing to the social conract) Paying off a less healthy person is not theft or oppression, its an investment, because once this person is healed or in a general better condition, he/she can contribute better to making the whole society more worth living in, for the one who made the "investment" in the first place too. Society is more than the sum of all individuals that care only for themselves (Ayn Rand?). An advanced society is one that realizes that it is more effective as a whole than the one driven by "everyone for himself".

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02-05-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
"Socialized" healthcare works.

Every first world developed nation in the world has it to a greater or lesser extent with the notable exception of the USA. Every single one of these countries spends less than the US on healthcare. In every single one of them, its citizens have longer life expectancy than the US.

[Image: ftotHealthExp_pC_USD_long.png]


Not only does socialized healthcare provide better healthcare for more people. It costs less.

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02-05-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
If we get a single payer system, we could see about employing displaced workers in research to improve our health care....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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