Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
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02-05-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 01:44 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  What i find fascinating in relation to the discussion at hand is, how an arch conservative, monarchist and nobleman, someone who is everything but "liberal" or "progressive", an outspoken anti-socialist, didnt have any problems with such a system, while a lot of, particularly republican, politicians in the US today rather would get their teeth pulled, before agreeing to such a concept. Hobo

Because he wasn't an idiot. He didn't rise to a position challenging even the emperor's power by being an idiot. He had many faults and certainly no sympathy for the great unwashed, but he was a big player in the game of politics and it's possibilities. On the same lines he also was against aquiring colonies. After Lüderitz landed in Southwest, Bismarck, overruled by the powers that were, resorted to calling the territory "Schutzgebiet", to avoid further conflict with foreign powers.

Yes, the decision for socialised healthcare was sound, and that's why it survived to this day and became a model for most European nations.

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02-05-2017, 02:24 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 01:44 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  What i find fascinating in relation to the discussion at hand is, how an arch conservative, monarchist and nobleman, someone who is everything but "liberal" or "progressive", an outspoken anti-socialist, didnt have any problems with such a system, while a lot of, particularly republican, politicians in the US today rather would get their teeth pulled, before agreeing to such a concept. Hobo

I find it more fascinating that ordinary citizens have somehow decided it's a bad idea. What exactly are those who don't want socialised medicine afraid of? Higher taxes? People getting healthcare who don't deserve it?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-05-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  I find it more fascinating that ordinary citizens have somehow decided it's a bad idea. What exactly are those who don't want socialised medicine afraid of? Higher taxes? People getting healthcare who don't deserve it?

It's a purely American narrative that anything socialised equals socialism, equals opression. Fueled by more than 6 decades of propaganda, of course. I mentioned it before, but I've seen propaganda films featuring Ronald Reagan making the case for socialised medicine leading to forced labor camps.

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02-05-2017, 02:41 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
What I don't understand is how short-sighted America's industrial leaders are:

Universal healthcare is GOOD for business, just like universal education is: it's the cheapest way of providing a healthy, qualified workforce. This article (albeit dating back to 2009) explained it well: (bolding mine)

"The U.S. auto giants are collapsing in part due to extraordinary health-care expenses, while they are competing with companies in countries that provide universal health care. Economist Dean Baker calculated how General Motors would fare if its health-care costs were the same as costs in Canada: “GM would have had higher profits, making no other changes ... that would equal $22 billion over the course of the last decade. They wouldn’t have to be running to the government for help.” GM is sometimes referred to as a health-care company that makes cars. Former Chrysler Chairman Lee Iacocca said in 2005, “It is a well-known fact that the U.S. automobile industry spends more per car on health care than on steel.” He supports national health care.

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02-05-2017, 02:44 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-05-2017 01:44 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  What i find fascinating in relation to the discussion at hand is, how an arch conservative, monarchist and nobleman, someone who is everything but "liberal" or "progressive", an outspoken anti-socialist, didnt have any problems with such a system, while a lot of, particularly republican, politicians in the US today rather would get their teeth pulled, before agreeing to such a concept. Hobo

I find it more fascinating that ordinary citizens have somehow decided it's a bad idea. What exactly are those who don't want socialised medicine afraid of? Higher taxes? People getting healthcare who don't deserve it?

At this point i can only speculate, but as i already hinted it may have to do with the american "spirit". Its a kind of stereotype but there is mostly some truth behind such things. My understanding is that americans are in general proud of their system which makes "from dishwasher to billionaire" possible. They are proud of being able to make it all by themselves, without any help form anyone else. "I could do it all by myself and so can (and should) you! We dont need or want anything else but the same basic freedoms (and a firearm). I am not asking for anyone elses help and dont want anyone else to me for help".
This is ok, when you are pioneering the (wild) west and fighting nature (and natives Tongue ) before the industrial revolution, but it maybe needs a kind of update for an already post-industrial 21st century society.

Over generalisation, stereotype, oversimplification, but probably a core truth, dunno.

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02-05-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
(02-05-2017 02:44 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Over generalisation, stereotype, oversimplification, but probably a core truth, dunno.

Nearly 7 decades of constant propaganda. Starting with the McCarthy years. There's that narrative of being the best, the greatest in nearly everything. Although the facts show that America is only #1 when it comes to prison population. Otherwise it ranges somehwhere in the 30ies.

That narrative leads to people acting against their own best interests. The younger ones less than older generations, since they're actually interested and don't get all their informations from cable news. It's also that few people actually have a passport and have travelled abroad. So they don't do comparisons by personal experience.

It's a little bit like North Korea. If you aren't aware of what's going on in the rest of the world, you're easily persuaded you're living in paradise.

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03-05-2017, 12:18 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
No question the past 7 decades have a severe effect. Once a policy spans more than the lifetime of a single human, there will be, at some point, no people left who can imagine "how it was" before the new policy was set.

Question to everybody who is more educated about american history than me:
Is it only the past 7 decades, or is there an underlying "spirit" many americans adhere too, that is older/different. How was the public opinion on such topics like socialized healthcare during the new deal? Roaring 20s? WWI? Gilded age?

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03-05-2017, 12:45 AM
RE: Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): people with pre-existing conditions should pay more
In Brooks' case... and true of most republicunts...idiocy is a pre-existing condition.

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