Reply: Malevolent God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-07-2011, 03:20 AM
 
Reply: Malevolent God
(09-06-2011 03:43 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  The only information we have on Satan is from the Bible, the word of God, so of course it's going to say that he's an evil being and that Hell is a place of torture. But just step back and look at the evidence. Satan doesn't demand worship...
I can't tell how serious your taking your opening post? Anyways it has to many inconsistencies to be considered credible. One being that Satan does demand worship:

"Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."
Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2011, 09:43 AM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
That's only from Jesus, and we are obviously not demigods. Show me one instance where Satan demands that humans worship him and I'll show you 10,000 instances where God demands the same.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-07-2011, 02:04 PM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
And I want to add something else. When Jesus refused to worship Satan, Satan didn't smite Jesus. He just moved along. "Oh, you won't worship me? Okay then, moving on".

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ashley.hunt60's post
08-07-2011, 07:09 PM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
Probably just went on to have a few drinks, listen to some music with a bunch of friends. Maybe play some videogames. Satan rolls like that.
Not to mention Hell has the best concerts Ever.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-07-2011, 01:31 AM
 
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
(08-07-2011 09:43 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  That's only from Jesus, and we are obviously not demigods.
That's not what the scriptures reveal, "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."

So how can Satan give all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus unless they're his in the first place. And if they're his kingdoms then he must be their king, which implies that he has followers who worship him, "and give the enemy no occasion for reproach; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan."

Quote:Show me one instance where Satan demands that humans worship him and I'll show you 10,000 instances where God demands the same.
God only demands that He be worshiped alone. All men/women worship something, but God requires that something be Him. If God did created the universe and all life in it than He is worthy of our worship.

So what do you worship Buddy Christ? Whatever it is do you think it's worthy...

Quote:Well I just finished the book of Isaiah, which states that "I, the Lord created evil" and refers to Lucifer as the son of the morning... which is how Jesus is referred to in the NT.
This sentence you wrote implies the very thing your trying to deny. Satan wants to be worshipped, he wants to sit on the throne inside the Temple. Don't you understand?... that's why he is referred to as "the star of the morning" because he imitates "the morning star".

The phrase Anti-Christ means in place of Christ, because Satan wants to replace Christ as king. And when he finally sits on the throne inside the Temple, he'll rule and reign for three and a half years according to Revelation. Why? Because Jesus' earthly ministry was three and a half years long. He comes in place of Christ, as an angel of light. Argh, this is more than I cared to delve into. Rolleyes

Peace Buddy Christ
(08-07-2011 07:09 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Probably just went on to have a few drinks, listen to some music with a bunch of friends. Maybe play some videogames. Satan rolls like that.
Not to mention Hell has the best concerts Ever.
Yeah and according to the Flaming Lips "hell has all the best bands anyways". Undecided
Quote this message in a reply
09-07-2011, 01:54 AM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
(09-07-2011 01:31 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  If God did created the universe and all life in it than He is worthy of our worship. Undecided

Yahweh? If so I wouldn't worship him. He is vile.

"The bible has been shown to be logically, historically, philosophically, sociologically, scientifically and even morally dead wrong about´╗┐ everything back to front" - Aron Ra
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-07-2011, 06:25 AM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
I see a storm of misunderstanding brewing here, HBAF, would you please define "worship", so we know if, according to your definition and not ours, if we do indeed worship something.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-07-2011, 09:41 AM
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
(09-07-2011 01:31 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  That's not what the scriptures reveal, "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."

So how can Satan give all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus unless they're his in the first place. And if they're his kingdoms then he must be their king, which implies that he has followers who worship him, "and give the enemy no occasion for reproach; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan."

Disregarding the first part because it's 100% assumption and nonsense, it still doesn't imply that Satan asks for worship. Satanist worship Satan because they want to, not because it's demanded of them. Lucifer was NOT the literal king of the cities, or else it would be noted by at least one historian. The Bible has a way of being inconsistent and nonsensical.


Quote:God only demands that He be worshiped alone. All men/women worship something, but God requires that something be Him.

This sentence is highly disturbing. "All men/women worship something?" Is that what you were raised to believe? Why in the world would you think we have to worship something?


Quote:If God did created the universe and all life in it than He is worthy of our worship.

Not necessarily. You have to then realize that EVERYTHING is because of God. All the pain, suffering, disease, birth defects, disasters, and tragedies are the work of God. Babies born without skin with a life expectancy of 2 years. All the worst hurricanes and earthquakes. All the starving children in Africa with bloated stomachs. And before you try and skirt the issue by placing blame on Satan, realize that God created Satan knowing exactly what he would do.


Quote:So what do you worship Buddy Christ? Whatever it is do you think it's worthy...

No one. I worship no one. I love, respect, admire, and cherish certain ideas, people, and things, but see no reason to worship anything. You really need to explain where this idea came from.


Quote:This sentence you wrote implies the very thing your trying to deny. Satan wants to be worshipped, he wants to sit on the throne inside the Temple. Don't you understand?... that's why he is referred to as "the star of the morning" because he imitates "the morning star".

The phrase Anti-Christ means in place of Christ, because Satan wants to replace Christ as king. And when he finally sits on the throne inside the Temple, he'll rule and reign for three and a half years according to Revelation. Why? Because Jesus' earthly ministry was three and a half years long. He comes in place of Christ, as an angel of light.

Whole lot of assumptions going on here.


Quote:Argh, this is more than I cared to delve into. Rolleyes

Peace Buddy Christ

Why? Why are you always so reluctant to debate? It seems like you're in a perpetual hurry.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2011, 07:53 AM
 
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
(09-07-2011 09:41 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Why? Why are you always so reluctant to debate? It seems like you're in a perpetual hurry.

That reminds me of myself as a Christian less than a year ago. If I remember right, he's the one who posted a thread about the doubts he was having about his faith. As someone struggling with belief, I was very reluctant to have much of a debate with anyone. I think it was because I was afraid I was wrong. I don't know if HBAF is at all like I was at this point in his faith, but my own experience is all I have to go by.

@HBAF - As Ashley said, you should tell us what you mean by worship. If you want to define worship as something that will apply to every living person, realize it isn't how most people understand the word worship. Most people think of it in religious terms:

"reverent honor and homage paid to god or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred."

If you're defining it as what somebody's ultimate purpose in life is, what they live for, or something along those lines, you and Buddy Christ are using two different definitions for worship. You can use whatever definition you want for a word, but it should make sense and should be a suitable definition when applied to situations outside the argument it was meant to help win.

For example, if a Christian doctor dedicates his life to helping other people, and spends most of his time and money in that pursuit would he not be committing idolatry? He may go to church regularly, pray to God, do his best to have a relationship with Jesus, and accept forgiveness for his sins, but he is living his life to help other people and make the world a better place. He may think this glorifies God or makes God happy, but if that qualifies as worshiping God then any activity that a religious person engages in can be classified as worshiping their deity as long as they think it pleases him or her.

My point is that you aren't going to use a definition of worship that allows you to say "everybody worships something" in everyday life. Giving praise to God, thanking him for what you believe he has given you, etc. are forms of worship. That is what people think of when they say worship, and that kind of exaltation and reverence is not something that everybody engages in. Your statement would be better worded as "everybody lives their life for something(s)... so what do you live your life for Buddy Christ?". The only point in rewording it to include worship is to put everyone on the same level as the religious. Many atheists consider it silly to worship anything, and wording the question that way is how an apologist can avoid having to defend worship.

I know you aren't being dishonest when you ask that question, chances are you heard it from some apologist and didn't design it with what I said in mind. I know that cop-out very well from the numerous times I've seen Cliffe Knechtle use it. He's my dad's favorite apologist, who he watches more consistently than he goes to church.

Now the point to me making such a long post in reply to a single choice of words is that it's a common tactic that I see in these kinds of debates. Redefining a word to avoid addressing the question with a different definition is deceptive and dishonest. Don't accept it as an answer to the actual question/challenge you pose to someone, and try to avoid using it yourself. I have every reason to believe you are an honest, sincere person, and I'm not suggesting you're doing anything wrong or dishonest. I'm just trying to put this into perspective and help you avoid something that is very counter-productive in a discussion about religion.
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Zach's post
26-07-2011, 11:53 PM
 
RE: Reply: Malevolent God
(09-07-2011 09:41 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Disregarding the first part because it's 100% assumption and nonsense, it still doesn't imply that Satan asks for worship. Satanist worship Satan because they want to, not because it's demanded of them. Lucifer was NOT the literal king of the cities, or else it would be noted by at least one historian. The Bible has a way of being inconsistent and nonsensical.
Oh I don't know, it's more a case of people having a "milk" understanding of the word. This works both ways, for Atheist and Christians alike.

"If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?"

"so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan"

"for some have already turned aside to follow Satan"

"the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan"

"I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name"

"It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him"

"And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead"
Quote:
Quote:God only demands that He be worshiped alone. All men/women worship something, but God requires that something be Him.
This sentence is highly disturbing. "All men/women worship something?" Is that what you were raised to believe? Why in the world would you think we have to worship something?
I was raised to believe in Saturday morning cartoons, Shazam!, Land of the Lost, Raideen, Speed Racer and Kimba the White Lion. Later in life I learned the ways of Mota, Proto-Pipes, Ska, New Romanticism and of course Betty's.

The act of worship being the "acknowledgement of worth". Everybody worships something, considers something worthy of worship, acknowledges the worth of something above all other somethings. God wants to be that something, He deems Himself worthy because all life emanates from Him.
Quote:
Quote:If God did created the universe and all life in it than He is worthy of our worship.
Not necessarily. You have to then realize that EVERYTHING is because of God. All the pain, suffering, disease, birth defects, disasters, and tragedies are the work of God. Babies born without skin with a life expectancy of 2 years. All the worst hurricanes and earthquakes. All the starving children in Africa with bloated stomachs. And before you try and skirt the issue by placing blame on Satan, realize that God created Satan knowing exactly what he would do.
God places the blame on us, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" Remember that Jesus came for sinners, those who seek forgiveness and reconciliation with their creator. If you don't consider yourself a sinner, than you'll have no desire to be reconciled to Him. Q. What is the price for sin? A. Separation from God. When Christ took the sins of the world, what price did He pay, separation from the Father, "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
Quote:
Quote:This sentence you wrote implies the very thing your trying to deny. Satan wants to be worshipped, he wants to sit on the throne inside the Temple. Don't you understand?... that's why he is referred to as "the star of the morning" because he imitates "the morning star".

The phrase Anti-Christ means in place of Christ, because Satan wants to replace Christ as king. And when he finally sits on the throne inside the Temple, he'll rule and reign for three and a half years according to Revelation. Why? Because Jesus' earthly ministry was three and a half years long. He comes in place of Christ, as an angel of light.
Whole lot of assumptions going on here.
Then please feel free to enlighten me...
Quote:
Quote:Argh, this is more than I cared to delve into. Rolleyes
Peace Buddy Christ
Why? Why are you always so reluctant to debate? It seems like you're in a perpetual hurry.
Reluctant to debate...Big Grin, but most of the time I am in a hurry.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: