Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
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20-12-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(19-12-2013 12:23 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 11:40 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I think I just fell in love, will you marry me?

Not before the first date. Smile

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20-12-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
Still trying to understand this prideful pretentious tirade you have going on. It just oozes from every post. What is exactly your deal, man? I'm not one to speculate motivations but all I see is poe. Hopefully I'm right, there just can't be this much pride, borderline hubris in a genuine person. Be honest with us. What is going on?

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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20-12-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
I haven't read this thread but is what you're saying homosexuality is wrong because it takes a dick and a vagina to make a baby?
So from an evolutionary stand point homosexuality could be considered bad?
Is that what you're saying?

Except that's stupid. You assume the only goal of life is procreation. And you'd be right for the most part. So if everyone on Earth suddenly became gay than yes, there could be a tiny bit of an issue (but not as big of a disaster as you might think what with modern science and people will just shag it up hetro style for the purpose of procreation). BUT that's not gonna happen. Roughly 10%?? of the population is gay. This means 90% isn't. The world population is growing. The biggest effects are the economy, not individuals sexuality.
If people are rich they have less children. So if ever we are at a time in human history where our population is in danger it's more likely because people are having less children, not become everyone suddenly prefers it up the butt.

This also implies that we should just kill of gays and infertile's because they don't contribute to this mythical grand goal of procreation.
I say mythical grand goal because we're not apes any more. We don't live in trees in some forest, watching out for jaguars and other predators and grunt to each other. We're evolved beyond that. We have identity, we are aware of ourselves, we can community, we can have individual thought beyond "food!!". We're intelligent, thinking, human beings.
The point being that sex and breeding is not the fundamental grand goal and isn't the reason why we are born to begin with.
Sure, from a purely carrying the species on POV we are, but we're human beings, we're well beyond only being alive to breed.

So how about you evolve and catch up to the rest of us and get this ridiculous idea that humans are only good for breeding out of your head because it's dead wrong, extremely primitive and makes you sound like a douche.

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20-12-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(20-12-2013 09:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 08:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you really do not understand evolution. Really.

It's not about propagation, it's about gene selection. When you have actually read a scientific book on evolution, we can have a discussion about it.

Again, Chas, and no suprise here, you make the same one-sentence garbage (you don't iunderstand, PJ) and say nothing of substance or anything logical.

If homosexuality has a root gene than we're talking about propagation and gene selection. I think it's you and not me who doesn't understand evolution.

You are ridiculous. You have repeatedly demonstrated both ignorance and misunderstanding of evolution.

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20-12-2013, 10:10 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 10:14 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You tried, and did not, refute what I wrote, but I appreciate the effort. Nor did anyone else even try.

The best "response" was "should we abandoned the infertile and mentally disabled also, then?"

The evolutionary answer is a resounding yes. Not the CHRISTIAN answer. The evolutionary, HONEST answer.

My point is we all have subjective ideas in part and logically formed opinions in part. Without God if we are evolved, you must admit evolution speaks AGAINST homosexuality and that you are adding a subjective opinion to go against evolutionary impetus.

Say all you want that I don't understand evolution. I darn well understand propagation and its necessity and you are all being disingenous here.

On evolution alone without your imagined positivist ethics there is every reason to repudiate homosexuality. Stop being dishonest, atheists.

I swear, I already told you this...

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(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The best "response" was "should we abandoned the infertile and mentally disabled also, then?"

The evolutionary answer is a resounding yes. Not the CHRISTIAN answer. The evolutionary, HONEST answer.

The Christian answer is not so cut and dry. What if the "infertile and mentally disabled" are Muslims or other apostates and heretics? You can easily make a theologically defensible argument that not only should you not save them, rather you should kill them yourself (see Crusades). As is par for the course for you, your inability to remove your blinders and rose tinted glasses throw yet another monkey wrench into your empty and inane assertions.

Evolution has bred into us a capacity for empathy, among many other emotions. You can easily make the argument that the evolutionary answer is to save them, because of our empathy and other factors like kin selection. It might not always be the most advantageous strategy in all situations, but when taken across the whole population of a very social species, it's still a net gain for the species as a whole to care about others. So once again, you do not understand evolution outside of your own fallacious caricatures that you find in fundy propaganda chick tracts.



(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Say all you want that I don't understand evolution. I darn well understand propagation and its necessity and you are all being disingenous here.

If you were projecting any harder, you'd have already etched your name on the surface of the moon. Drinking Beverage


(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  On evolution alone without your imagined positivist ethics there is every reason to repudiate homosexuality. Stop being dishonest, atheists.

You're a fucking idiot. The straight male chimpanzees don't have to worry about competing for females with the gay male chimpanzees, so what incentive do the straight males have to 'repudiate' the gay ones? None, and instead every reason to preserve them. Why? They make the best guardians. Who better to leave behind to protect the females and the young than the males you know wont mate with the females when you're away?

Fail again PJ, fail again...

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20-12-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
One would hope to strive NOT to be an asshole. Sure, PJ, you can be anti gay. But you're also a fucking douchebag, so there's that. It's better to have dicks up the ass than to be a douchebag.

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20-12-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You tried, and did not, refute what I wrote, but I appreciate the effort. Nor did anyone else even try.

That's because the things you say are stupid and are easily refuted. Nice shifting of the goal posts though.
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20-12-2013, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 10:30 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(20-12-2013 09:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Again, Chas, and no suprise here, you make the same one-sentence garbage (you don't iunderstand, PJ) and say nothing of substance or anything logical.

If homosexuality has a root gene than we're talking about propagation and gene selection. I think it's you and not me who doesn't understand evolution.
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Seriously homosexuality is just wrong! i can't believe they even compared something as harmless as slavery with homosexuality.

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Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
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20-12-2013, 10:29 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2013 10:33 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
(20-12-2013 07:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 02:17 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Where to begin.

First of all, this notion that you have where no god means evolution? Shitcan that right now. Evolution is not automatically arrived at without the existence of a god. Rather, evolution is evaluated through examining extensive evidence exhibited in existence.

Second. I will repeat myself. You. Do. Not. Understand. Evolution. And after all the times we've had this discussion, it's obvious that you never will, so while I'll address my comments to you, I'm actually speaking to anyone else who might be reading this thread. While we might find an evolutionary chain of causation leading to the instincts (eg empathy) that form the underlying basis of human morality, evolution does not dictate morality in the sense that you think it does. Evolutionary theory is explanatory, descriptive, and predictive. It is not prescriptive or proscriptive. It tells us how things happened, what happened, and what is likely to happen. It does not tell us what to do and what not to do. You are confusing eugenics with genetics, Social Darwinism with real Darwinism, which is a common and low equivocation put forward by the most wretchedly disingenuous leaders of right-wing Christianity and the cretinous suckers who believe their lies. (I'll refrain from speculating on which category you fall in.) Knowing that certain behaviors will result in higher or lower populations does not tell us to pursue one behavior or the other. By your logic, knowing that gravity makes people fall would create a moral imperative to push people off of cliffs.

Third, there's a difference between "life-affirming" and "maximized output". "Life affirming" does not condone, say, forcible copulation (ie rape) of women at every potentially fertile moment to produce as many babies as possible. (Nor would your maximization logic actually reject additional, same-sex copulation under those circumstances.) You completely ignore issues of quality of life, memetic reproduction, societal structure, kinship, and attempt to reduce the entirety of healthy human existence and sexual activity to a single variable.

Finally, why do I object to the "repudiation" of homosexuality? Well, repudiation is a very interesting word, and my objection depends on the nature of your repudiation. Not counting a form of divorce, it means basically "refusing to accept". Well if that's all you're doing, I have no objection at all. DON'T accept it. Cover your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and go "LALALALALA!" in attempt to drown out the sound of a society that has the gall to actually disagree with you. Become a hermit locked in your house, never emerging. More power to you! If you want help in that, I'll happily glue your lock shut. But when you do more than simply refuse to accept it; when you become an agent of oppression; when you and your socially conservative ilk salivate at the notion of regressing society to the age of Stonewall beatings and Inquisitorial burnings for homosexuality but discover to your dismay that the civilized world no longer tolerates your brand of religious bigotry wielding a bloody sword and calling it virtue; when in your despair you opt for a rearguard of stalled incrementalism; when you call the bullying of gay teenagers freedom of religion for the bullies; when you call the beating of a child who shows the slightest imagined homosexual trait to be good parenting; when you call the denial of the right to be at a loved one's hospital bedside a defense of marriage; when you call exclusion from the military of an able-bodied soldier willing and able to defend the country patriotism; when you channel your money and missionary efforts into engineering the lifelong imprisonment of homosexuals in developing nations like Uganda (oops, wait, your conservative Christianity was aiming for the death penalty... missed it by THAT much); when you not-so-secretly dream of expanding your persecution to infidels and heathens, other races and the other sex, to every other category that is other than you; when, in short, you bring your lies, falsehoods, hatreds and other symptoms of your faith into the public domain and attempt to distort society with them; why then, I'll be there, objecting most strongly, and seeking to block you at every turn.

PS: What is "designed" evolution? That sounds almost like a contradiction in terms.

You tried, and did not, refute what I wrote, but I appreciate the effort. Nor did anyone else even try.

The best "response" was "should we abandoned the infertile and mentally disabled also, then?"

The evolutionary answer is a resounding yes. Not the CHRISTIAN answer. The evolutionary, HONEST answer.

My point is we all have subjective ideas in part and logically formed opinions in part. Without God if we are evolved, you must admit evolution speaks AGAINST homosexuality and that you are adding a subjective opinion to go against evolutionary impetus.

Say all you want that I don't understand evolution. I darn well understand propagation and its necessity and you are all being disingenous here.

On evolution alone without your imagined positivist ethics there is every reason to repudiate homosexuality. Stop being dishonest, atheists.

You keep doing this. Not just in this thread, but pretty much anywhere the subject comes up. You keep asserting that evolutionary theory says something which it does not actually say. Evolution does not say we should abandon the infirm or mentally disabled. It makes no statement at all about what we should or shouldn't do. It is neither prescriptive nor proscriptive. Your assertion to the contrary is the principle dishonesty at work in this thread.
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20-12-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: Repudiating Homosexuality Is Wrong Because Why?
Lesbian Lizards

Banana_zorro Checkmate, PJ! Banana_zorro

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