Requesting input......
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03-05-2014, 09:45 PM
RE: Requesting input......
(03-05-2014 09:34 PM)John Wrote:  Could be, I'm too young to know much of what Sagan said on telly, I've just seen clips on youtube later on.

You calling me old? Tongue

Jk I was just saying what I thought it was. I don't know much about Lawrence Krauss, so I attributed the quote to someone more familiar to me. Somebody needs to get in here and say who's right! Haha

Or I could just google it......

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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03-05-2014, 09:56 PM
RE: Requesting input......
(03-05-2014 08:19 PM)CindysRain Wrote:  Does anyone remember an older movie called Short Circuit? It is still one of my favorites to this day. Like the robot #5, I would like some input....

Now that I realize that Genesis 1:1 is simply the 'beginning" of a ridiculously, and not even well-written, fairy tale, where does that leave me? I have no idea?!

This is going to sound extremely naive, but honestly I am very naive when it comes to this subject - how did we get here?

That's not naive at all, hun, that's amazingly and beautifully honest. Congratulations. Thumbsup

The answer is: We don't know yet.

And, no matter how much religious people might protest, that is a GOOD answer, and the BEST answer, and the ONLY honest answer.


Quote: All I ever knew was the bible version.

...and if you had been born in India, all you might have ever known would be the Hindu or the Tibetan-religion answer. And if you had been born in Pakistan, all you might ever have known would be the Islamic answer. And so on. But NOW look at you -- you have stepped outside of all that, and courageously



Quote:As of yet, there are no other planets that can sustain life, as earth does.

We have actually recently found some planets that we think may harbor similar similar conditions to ours. Things are happening fast now in astronomy and these are truly exciting times.


Quote:Are there more out there? Probably. But, for now, I'd just like to deal with earth's beginnings, and human life beginnings.

The best way to approach it is how you apparently are right now: It isn't necessary to cling to one belief or another about this. What's important, if you wish to investigate these questions, is to truly investigate them without prejudice or presupposition. And understand that it's perfectly OK to admit that you -- and WE -- don't have a definitive answer for these questions yet. AND it's possible that we might not ever know, because we can't travel in time to find out definitively. But that's a hell of a lot better than just making shit up -- which is what the religions have done.

Quote:I would really appreciate other's thoughts on this.

Glad you are here. Hug

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03-05-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Requesting input......
I am enjoying your thoughts on this subject and appreciate the replies. Charis mentioned Carl Sagan. He's a scientist, I believe. Think I will look into his books.

Taqiyya - You were extra sweet and understanding. I cannot thank you enough! This really is a whole new world to me. Seriously, this former fundamental baptist, is now a member of an atheist website! I feel that I'm moving in the right direction now. No matter what, I get to decide what I believe! Yes

I guess years of indoctrination still makes me feel "sometimes", that I do need to have all the answers, but I like what you said, Taqiyya - it's okay if we do not have all the answers.

Glue gun - Beautiful explanation!

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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03-05-2014, 11:03 PM
RE: Requesting input......
You're going to see some posts of Taqqiya's that don't match up with what you've seen here. He can be VERY brutal... and VERY sweet. Please don't be too alarmed. He's the forum whip. Wink

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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03-05-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Requesting input......
(03-05-2014 11:03 PM)Charis Wrote:  You're going to see some posts of Taqqiya's that don't match up with what you've seen here. He can be VERY brutal... and VERY sweet. Please don't be too alarmed. He's the forum whip. Wink

Gulp! Duly noted Charis. Unsure

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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09-05-2014, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 12:14 PM by therealJim.)
RE: Requesting input......
Hi Cindys,

first of all: #5 rocks ! Clap

Now for the input part:

1. Taq, as usual Bowing , is right. It is perfectly FINE to say "I don't know". It is simply honest to do so. Honesty towards yourself is fundamental to your ability to learn. Because only if you admit your limits, your ignorance, your blind spots will you be able to overcome them. And this goal, this desire to improve one's understanding of the world, is the heart of science. Otherwise all the hard work, done by millions and millions of our brothers and sisters, would be pointless.

2.Now for the ressources:
I suggest that you first get a basic idea of what science / the scientific method is, how it works, and why it is so important. This will accomplish 2 things:
a) Improve your ability to think clearly,
b) Help you understand why scientific knowledge is more trustworthy than religious dogma.
(Hint: "There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works. (*he smiles*)" - Stephen Hawking)
Good starting points are:
- Wikipedia
- This lecture by no other than Richard Feynman himself (the others in this series - "The Character of Physical Law" - are also easy to understand and a delight to watch).
- And Carl Sagan's classic book "The Demon-Haunted World"
Try to get through the online stuff first, as it will make Sagan easier to understand (he implicitly assumes that one has a basic grasp of what science is).

If you want up-to-date science news try "I fucking love science".

If you want an introduction to astronomy, look for
- "Astronomy for Dummies" by Stephen Maran or
- if you want something meatier -
- "The Cosmos: Astronomy in the New Millenium" by Alex Filippenko (a world class astronomer).

Also the Teaching Company has some great material.
I have bought their courses on astronomy, cosmology and some light stuff in geology. I currently don't use the option of online streaming that came with the videos, so I can offer it to you for free. Just drop me a pm.

Take your time with any of these ressources.
Try to commit about 20 hours at first (that's about 40 minutes a day for a month). That will help you get through the "frustration barrier" (that part early on, where you / I / everybody understand(s) almost nothing and feel(s) quite stupid).

"Newton's third law: The only way humans have ever figured out of getting somewhere is to leave something behind." - TARS, Interstellar
"Newtons drittes Gesetz: Der einzige Weg wie Menschen irgendwo hin kommen, ist der dass sie etwas zurücklassen." - TARS, Interstellar
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09-05-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Requesting input......
I can teach you about animal evolution. Other then that with me you would be SOL.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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09-05-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Requesting input......
Have you guys forgotten that #5 had a name? Dodgy

It was Johnny. And Johnny 5 IS ALIVE!

"Hey laserlips! Your mamma was a snowblower!"

To the OP:

As others have said, we don't know, and that's OK. That's the beauty of science. Admitting that we don't know something doesn't mean we're stupid and it certainly doesn't mean we need to make stuff up to explain it. We'll get there through patience, experimentation, and rational thinking. And when we do get there, the answer will be more majestic, beautiful, and complex than any religious explanation could hope to be.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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12-05-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: Requesting input......
(09-05-2014 12:05 PM)therealJim Wrote:  Hi Cindys,

first of all: #5 rocks ! Clap

Now for the input part:

1. Taq, as usual Bowing , is right. It is perfectly FINE to say "I don't know". It is simply honest to do so. Honesty towards yourself is fundamental to your ability to learn. Because only if you admit your limits, your ignorance, your blind spots will you be able to overcome them. And this goal, this desire to improve one's understanding of the world, is the heart of science. Otherwise all the hard work, done by millions and millions of our brothers and sisters, would be pointless.

2.Now for the ressources:
I suggest that you first get a basic idea of what science / the scientific method is, how it works, and why it is so important. This will accomplish 2 things:
a) Improve your ability to think clearly,
b) Help you understand why scientific knowledge is more trustworthy than religious dogma.
(Hint: "There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win, because it works. (*he smiles*)" - Stephen Hawking)
Good starting points are:
- Wikipedia
- This lecture by no other than Richard Feynman himself (the others in this series - "The Character of Physical Law" - are also easy to understand and a delight to watch).
- And Carl Sagan's classic book "The Demon-Haunted World"
Try to get through the online stuff first, as it will make Sagan easier to understand (he implicitly assumes that one has a basic grasp of what science is).

If you want up-to-date science news try "I fucking love science".

If you want an introduction to astronomy, look for
- "Astronomy for Dummies" by Stephen Maran or
- if you want something meatier -
- "The Cosmos: Astronomy in the New Millenium" by Alex Filippenko (a world class astronomer).

Also the Teaching Company has some great material.
I have bought their courses on astronomy, cosmology and some light stuff in geology. I currently don't use the option of online streaming that came with the videos, so I can offer it to you for free. Just drop me a pm.

Take your time with any of these ressources.
Try to commit about 20 hours at first (that's about 40 minutes a day for a month). That will help you get through the "frustration barrier" (that part early on, where you / I / everybody understand(s) almost nothing and feel(s) quite stupid).

I did not see this post until right now....still learning the site.

Wow and wow! Thanks for all the great info!! I do follow a couple facebook sites like The Mind Unleashed and I Fucking Love Science. It is really helping sculpt my new thought process.

Think I might just copy and paste all this to my open office, so I can sift through each one, taking my time.

Nice input!! Yes





Number 5 is alive!

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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12-05-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: Requesting input......
(09-05-2014 12:31 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Have you guys forgotten that #5 had a name? Dodgy

It was Johnny. And Johnny 5 IS ALIVE!

"Hey laserlips! Your mamma was a snowblower!"

To the OP:

As others have said, we don't know, and that's OK. That's the beauty of science. Admitting that we don't know something doesn't mean we're stupid and it certainly doesn't mean we need to make stuff up to explain it. We'll get there through patience, experimentation, and rational thinking. And when we do get there, the answer will be more majestic, beautiful, and complex than any religious explanation could hope to be.

I am re-watching The Cosmos on my DVR. Your are so right about the beauty of science! It is majestic. I'm loving Neil, and beginning to learn to appreciate Carl Sagan, but he's still a lot over my head.

All this input is indeed helping erase the dogma, that still nags at the back of my mind. You guys are wonderfully supportive.

I also have my beloved Short Circuit on DVR, now I need to watch him again.

No disassemble!! No

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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