Resolving conflicting loyalties
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14-02-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
(14-02-2013 06:05 AM)Zat Wrote:  Everybody is aware of the problems caused by conflicting loyalties but I have not seen any good advice or guidelines on how to resolve them.

Can we create a systematic and logical hierarchy of obligations we face as human beings?

Morality is the guideline. Loyalty is, for the most part, irrational. You don't put importance in certain individuals over others. Something that really pisses me off is when people say things like, "family is everything" and/or "family is the most important".

This was kind of hinted on in Euthyphro. I think he was going after his own father for doing something that was seen as wrong, prior to being praised by and going into to a separate discussion with Socrates. He was doing something that was seemingly admirable, by standing up for what was ethically correct, as opposed to loyal, but maybe not rationally, so there was an ethical discussion. I'm pretty sure that is the same dialog the Euthyphro dilemma came from, but hell, I don't actually read that shit.

If people liked Socrates as much as they liked Jesus, we'd all be good. Religion is a huge problem, but the root of the problem comes back to people responding with emotion and natural impulse as opposed to taking time to use reason.

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14-02-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
(14-02-2013 09:39 AM)nach_in Wrote:  false dichotomies, false dichotomies everywhere!! O.o
...
Before I came back from my romantic Valentine's day lunch, I was seriously hoping for some intelligent dialogue on the issue.

What I got was what I quoted.

Perhaps 30,000-40,000 US draft dodgers and deserters fleeing the Vietnam war were quietly accepted in Canada, during the Vietnam War.

False dichotomies indeed!

Rolleyes
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14-02-2013, 05:33 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
(14-02-2013 05:15 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(14-02-2013 09:39 AM)nach_in Wrote:  false dichotomies, false dichotomies everywhere!! O.o
...
Before I came back from my romantic Valentine's day lunch, I was seriously hoping for some intelligent dialogue on the issue.

What I got was what I quoted.

Perhaps 30,000-40,000 US draft dodgers and deserters fleeing the Vietnam war were quietly accepted in Canada, during the Vietnam War.

False dichotomies indeed!

Rolleyes
I gave you a complete and intelligent answer, I explained why I think that your idea of only two options for a given situation is not the best way to deal with the topic you present. And after that you continued presenting this dichotomies (which I said are false in my opinion).

I won't try to give a varied set of solutions for all your casuistic, that would be endless and we wouldn't get anywhere Drinking Beverage

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14-02-2013, 05:36 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
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OK, what other options did those draft dodgers have?
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14-02-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
I won't try to give a varied set of solutions for all your casuistic

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14-02-2013, 05:50 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2013 06:22 PM by Zat.)
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
Right.

Spoken like a real lawyer.

Oh well, you warned me! Big Grin

OK, this out of the way -- anyone else had conflicts of loyalties they had some difficulties with to resolve? Huh
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14-02-2013, 05:57 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
Nothing very philosophical (or most probably pertinent to the discussion), but the very first thought that came to my mind on reading the topic, was this line from a song of one of the greatest poets and musicians of the 20th century (it's more about conflicting instincts, but after all, what drives us, but instincts):

"la voglia di dare l'istinto di avere" - "the will to give, the instinct to have".

For some reason it has always stuck with me.

And this is the song, in case anyone is interested.





(Feel free to disregard this post completely, I know it's barely pertinent.)

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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14-02-2013, 06:03 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2013 06:24 PM by Zat.)
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
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Conflict between your own interests and the needs of the family, job, church, state, country, humanity?

Conflict between any of the two?

Conflict that you had a hard time to resolve, feeling torn in two directions at the same time?

Many of us had these conflicts..

So, tell us about your own way of dealing with these conflicts in loyalties and what it mean to you!

We need to learn from each others' experiences. Smile
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14-02-2013, 07:11 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
(14-02-2013 08:41 AM)Zat Wrote:  So what do you do if you have a job and your boss wants you to do something unethical and would fire you if you refused?

You very much would like to refuse, and get fired instead, because you know that the action would have harmful consequences to your community (like dumping toxic waste).

On the other hand, your sun is in college and depends on you for his tuition?

I see a possible conflict here between family and society.
I have always been an entrepreneur, so this hasn't applied to me. If business went badly, I looked to myself for reasons.

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14-02-2013, 07:16 PM
RE: Resolving conflicting loyalties
As far as dodging the draft, if I had decided that was the thing to do, I would have done it. I emigrated at around that age anyway...

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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