Respect for Religion

[fstratzero]

(21-12-2012 12:26 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, fst.

Oh, I'm sorry. Have your peer-reviewed paper links been fast and furious and I just missed them? I write very in-depth responses. If it's not good enough to get me my masters degree, so be it. But don't pretend that I offer nothing in the way of support.

Quote:He stated all models are ‘wrong’, because we cannot precisely simulate
every breath of wind, every raindrop, or every worm turning over the
soil. But this does not preclude their usefulness as tools to explore
the broad consequences of known physical laws. In other words, you are
equating a sentiment on simulations as tools for exploring natural
phenomena as some kind of support of cultural relativism.

Of course it doesn't preclude their usefulness. His entire point is that they're useful.

The known physical laws are wrong too. But useful.

It's not sentiment, it's a demonstrable observation. It's not some kind of support, it is the constructivist view in action.

Quote:And this demonstrates nothing. It's a neat way to show the processes
that we under go in communication, but doesn't negate the fact that in
order to interact with the world all a being needs is to exist in it.

Wow. You utterly missed the point. Keep clinging to that strawman of yours.

I don't think that positivism and the constructivist view are incompatible. Positivism says there is only one source of knowledge. Constructed reality suggests that that view point is a construction and that the knowledge gained through empirical inquiry, however useful, is not objectively true.

Feel free to start another thread.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Lets do this.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...Positivism

[ScienceGeek2587]

(21-12-2012 12:02 AM)Ghost Wrote:  The reason I said what you seem to agree with is because the notion that religion offers nothing is puerile nonsense...But the outright denial of any value is just silly.

Like nailing Jell-o to a wall.

Circuitous definition, nice. Let's go to Webster:

respect - n. 2. an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION 3a. high or special regard : ESTEEM b. the quality or state of being esteemed
vt. 1a. to consider worthy of high regard :ESTEEM b. to refrain from interfering with <please respect their privacy>

The only benefit religion can arguably be credited with is a sense of belonging and community, the same thing offered by Dungeons&Dragons or a bowling league, except they aren't divisive and don't incite violence. So, normal subcultures, recreational organizations and secular charities can cover ALL of religion's potential benefits only without the harm.

In contrast, religion breeds intolerance, fosters xenophobia, and encourages torture and even slaughter, while only marginally offering any benefit and only at the cost of hypocrisy.

You've yet to posit ANYTHING that could serve as a reason to give religion high or special regard. The red herring of "socially constructed reality" and resorting to subtle personal attacks does not strengthen your argument. If you cannot give SPECIFIC reasons why RELIGION itself should be held in high or special regard, then you have no platfom on which to stand and the point is conceded, there is no reason to hold religion in high or special regard, to respect it.

By respecting the religious, I mean common courtesy: not accosting them, or heck, even starting the conversation, but asking me to believe unfounded and dangerous crap is more than enough ground to allow me to challenge the belief. Demanding I allow my children to be taught that crap, or asking me to contribute money so religious people can put religious decorations on public property is NOT to go unchallenged.

[Janus]

Puh-lease! Respect is the last thing religions deserve looking at their abysmal track records. I will mind my manners (as long as I can contain myself), but 'respect'? No, absolutely NOT!

[Ghost]

Hey, DLJ.

You can suggest whatever you like.

And believe
me, pretty much everyone has put words in my mouth so far. It wouldn't
bother me so much if the words weren't full of shit, but now I have shit
mouth... and it's gross.

Hey, Chas.

Pretty much a
semantical argument if we pursue it further. Fortunately, it isn't
really germane to the topic at hand, so I'm content to move on.

Hey, fst.

And you posted that video... why exactly?

Hey, science.

You've got issues and I ain't lookin to buy a subscription.

You don't seem capable of giving credit where credit is due. So I guess you and I aren't gonna have a rational conversation. My facts are no match for your unrelated prepared statements.

I just hate agreeing with something, several times, only to have it come up again like I don't. Yes. Other things do the job of religion. But it's not a utilitarian argument.

Sorry you don't think I've posted ANYTHING. I can see I'm wasting my time. Red herring... what a joke.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

[ScienceGeek2587]

(22-12-2012 12:39 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, DLJ.

You can suggest whatever you like.

And believe
me, pretty much everyone has put words in my mouth so far. It wouldn't
bother me so much if the words weren't full of shit, but now I have shit
mouth... and it's gross.

Hey, Chas.

Pretty much a
semantical argument if we pursue it further. Fortunately, it isn't
really germane to the topic at hand, so I'm content to move on.

Hey, fst.

And you posted that video... why exactly?

Hey, science.

You've got issues and I ain't lookin to buy a subscription.

You don't seem capable of giving credit where credit is due. So I guess you and I aren't gonna have a rational conversation. My facts are no match for your unrelated prepared statements.

I just hate agreeing with something, several times, only to have it come up again like I don't. Yes. Other things do the job of religion. But it's not a utilitarian argument.

Sorry you don't think I've posted ANYTHING. I can see I'm wasting my time. Red herring... what a joke.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

"Son, go grab that dictionary, no, the red one." Prepared.

[Question]

Respect goes both ways - I don't really care if someone is religious. But, if you are going to something to agitate me, or just be an ass, you don't really deserve to be treated in a polite manner.