Respect for our Veterans?
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30-03-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 07:18 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You think that there weren't injustices and disgusting acts done by U.S soldiers in World War II?

Torture, rape, mass murder of civilians and prisoners of war; US forces participated in activities just as bad as anyone else during WWII. It seems the Greatest Generation wasn’t any better than those that came before or after.

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30-03-2012, 12:12 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 07:41 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 07:18 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  You think that there weren't injustices and disgusting acts done by U.S soldiers in World War II?

Torture, rape, mass murder of civilians and prisoners of war; US forces participated in activities just as bad as anyone else during WWII. It seems the Greatest Generation wasn’t any better than those that came before or after.

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Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
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30-03-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 12:12 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 07:41 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Torture, rape, mass murder of civilians and prisoners of war; US forces participated in activities just as bad as anyone else during WWII. It seems the Greatest Generation wasn’t any better than those that came before or after.

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Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.
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30-03-2012, 02:18 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 12:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 12:12 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.

That's right Clyde. The OP insinuated that Grandpa and other soldiers that served in WWII are more deserving of respect than those that currently serve. It’s bullshit. WWII forces included clerks, cooks and mechanics just like modern forces. They participated in the popular leisure activities of the time whenever they had the opportunity. They attempted to leverage their uniforms and status as warriors into getting laid. They committed the same types of atrocities that soldiers on all sides of conflicts throughout history have participated in. As a group the soldiers of WWII aren’t any more deserving of respect than any of the soldiers that serve honorably in today’s conflicts.

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30-03-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
I think that whether police, firefighter, military, or the like, if you volunteer to place you life in danger for something bigger and more important than yourself then you deserve respect. There are cooks and office bitches in the Navy but when the shit hits the fan we are all on the same ship. We put out the same fires, repair the same leaks, and contribute equally in every regard. It's no different than 60 years ago. I fail to see how air conditioning and playstation makes their commitment any less deserving.

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30-03-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 12:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 12:12 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.
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30-03-2012, 04:21 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 12:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 12:12 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.
I still don't follow this logic. It sounds as if you are suggesting we judge the military solely based on a few rotten egg's misdeeds. Yes. from a moral stand point, the soldiers probably have not gotten any less wicked. But that seems to be about the only thing you can draw from that statement.

I thought we were talking about the questionable practice of the current military, and what the soldiers as a whole had to endure. The veterans of WWII were fighting a just cause, and had to endure pure hellish living conditions while doing it. That is why we gave these people respect. On the other hand, you can say just about the exact opposite for the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.
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30-03-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 04:21 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 12:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.
I still don't follow this logic. It sounds as if you are suggesting we judge the military solely based on a few rotten egg's misdeeds. Yes. from a moral stand point, the soldiers probably have not gotten any less wicked. But that seems to be about the only thing you can draw from that statement.

I thought we were talking about the questionable practice of the current military, and what the soldiers as a whole had to endure. The veterans of WWII were fighting a just cause, and had to endure pure hellish living conditions while doing it. That is why we gave these people respect. On the other hand, you can say just about the exact opposite for the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.
Not everyone was judging the Vietnam vets poorly for being soldiers.. All I was saying, in essence a few rotten eggs judged a few rotten eggs.. You see how that isn't a far expanding reach?

The topic is about whether or not the soldiers of today deserve and get the same level of respect. If you want to limit it to just the topic of what they endure, that's what I think is narrowly looking at the issue. People know more about the ongoings of the war than they did in the past. When people know more about a subject, a blind praise they may of had before lessens. (Similar to why people are here.)

The impact of society's view is what you are saying in the end there. That is a big part of the issue, but myself and many other posters disagree with the supposed attitude that soliders were all treated golroiously. Whichever the total reasons are, I don't see this trend of solders acting like they due deserve the respect a young kid drafted or some guy who lied about his age to join the war got.

And I'm no expert.. but didn't tons of men volunteer to join the forces in WWII.. because they were extremely patriotic. That seems to be a strike the OP takes against guys joining after 9/11 but they're pure mirrors scenarios. How they were used as troops it where the difference comes from.
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31-03-2012, 01:54 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 02:18 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 12:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Actually it does... It entirely relates to the gaps in relation to the initial argument. People weren't aware of the ongoings of war and soldiers lives in the past. The only information the general public got was propaganda in papers and movie reels.

From the growth of the newsmedia onward people became aware of the issues and felt differently about scenarios of war, especially when documents in that regard come out.

That's why you had people protesting in from of Nam' vets or spitting on them.

The attitude of solders of WWII in before and Vietnam and ahead have been dramatically shifted. Even if there are the occasional guys gloating about their service, it doesn't take to a lot of people due to the knowledge that continues to grow in public.

That's right Clyde. The OP insinuated that Grandpa and other soldiers that served in WWII are more deserving of respect than those that currently serve. It’s bullshit. WWII forces included clerks, cooks and mechanics just like modern forces. They participated in the popular leisure activities of the time whenever they had the opportunity. They attempted to leverage their uniforms and status as warriors into getting laid. They committed the same types of atrocities that soldiers on all sides of conflicts throughout history have participated in. As a group the soldiers of WWII aren’t any more deserving of respect than any of the soldiers that serve honorably in today’s conflicts.


Are we generalizing here that ALL WWII veterans raped, and the like? Think that is a bit overreaching to say that of all. My grandfather never spoke a word of his war days.
I even have some friends now who have or are serving in the military. My aunt is even going into the Navy, I believe in less than a week.
Think overall that our war heroes, are not honored enough. While I do think that some of our newer officers have it a bit easier in terms of the advancements technology has made in the military field.... war is war....and either way it is ugly. Heck, would like things better if they got more of a football player's salary. They get paid gobs of money just to tackle each other...and our officers get a slap on the wrist and a pat on the back, if not spit in the face...think I would prefer a bullet to the head honestly in their shoes.
Really quite sad.
I will say this much though, I did not mean to come out sounding like our newer officers do not deserve any honor. They do...especially those who have been to Iraq and back. Some of their stories are pretty scary. Had a friend stationed there and he said that it was a wonder if someone did not slip broken glass in your next meal in hopes of killing you.
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31-03-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Respect for our Veterans?
(30-03-2012 04:40 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(30-03-2012 04:21 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  I still don't follow this logic. It sounds as if you are suggesting we judge the military solely based on a few rotten egg's misdeeds. Yes. from a moral stand point, the soldiers probably have not gotten any less wicked. But that seems to be about the only thing you can draw from that statement.

I thought we were talking about the questionable practice of the current military, and what the soldiers as a whole had to endure. The veterans of WWII were fighting a just cause, and had to endure pure hellish living conditions while doing it. That is why we gave these people respect. On the other hand, you can say just about the exact opposite for the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.
Not everyone was judging the Vietnam vets poorly for being soldiers.. All I was saying, in essence a few rotten eggs judged a few rotten eggs.. You see how that isn't a far expanding reach?

The topic is about whether or not the soldiers of today deserve and get the same level of respect. If you want to limit it to just the topic of what they endure, that's what I think is narrowly looking at the issue. People know more about the ongoings of the war than they did in the past. When people know more about a subject, a blind praise they may of had before lessens. (Similar to why people are here.)

The impact of society's view is what you are saying in the end there. That is a big part of the issue, but myself and many other posters disagree with the supposed attitude that soliders were all treated golroiously. Whichever the total reasons are, I don't see this trend of solders acting like they due deserve the respect a young kid drafted or some guy who lied about his age to join the war got.

And I'm no expert.. but didn't tons of men volunteer to join the forces in WWII.. because they were extremely patriotic. That seems to be a strike the OP takes against guys joining after 9/11 but they're pure mirrors scenarios. How they were used as troops it where the difference comes from.
Quote:
Quote:I still don't follow this logic. It sounds as if you are suggesting we
judge the military solely based on a few rotten egg's misdeeds. Yes.
from a moral stand point, the soldiers probably have not gotten any less
wicked. But that seems to be about the only thing you can draw from
that statement.

I thought we were talking about the questionable
practice of the current military, and what the soldiers as a whole had
to endure. The veterans of WWII were fighting a just cause, and had to
endure pure hellish living conditions while doing it. That is why we
gave these people respect. On the other hand, you can say just about the
exact opposite for the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.
Not
everyone was judging the Vietnam vets poorly for being soldiers.. All I
was saying, in essence a few rotten eggs judged a few rotten eggs.. You
see how that isn't a far expanding reach?

The topic is about
whether or not the soldiers of today deserve and get the same level of
respect. If you want to limit it to just the topic of what they endure,
that's what I think is narrowly looking at the issue. People know more
about the ongoings of the war than they did in the past. When people
know more about a subject, a blind praise they may of had before
lessens. (Similar to why people are here.)

The impact of
society's view is what you are saying in the end there. That is a big
part of the issue, but myself and many other posters disagree with the
supposed attitude that soliders were all treated golroiously. Whichever
the total reasons are, I don't see this trend of solders acting like
they due deserve the respect a young kid drafted or some guy who lied
about his age to join the war got.

And I'm no expert.. but didn't
tons of men volunteer to join the forces in WWII.. because they were
extremely patriotic. That seems to be a strike the OP takes against guys
joining after 9/11 but they're pure mirrors scenarios. How they were
used as troops it where the difference comes from.
Well
to be fair, they had a reason to be patriotic back then. The country
had not become the corporate owned shit hole that it is today. It was
also a very different time, globally speaking.

The soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq live better than the citizens they oppress.
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