Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
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28-04-2015, 09:18 AM
Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
HuffPo is about as much news as the paper I wipe with.
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28-04-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 09:07 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  We are successfully empathetic toward our offspring, family, and "our own," which is all our genes need of us to proliferate.

Tell that to the 60% of black kids who grow up without their biological fathers. But sure when it comes to empathy, we'd likely find more success among families, and close friends, than outside of this.

Quote:As far as history goes, there have been horrible things and amazing things. I don't think I would call all of human history a moral failing.

There's not just amazing things, and horrible things. There's also indifference. “The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference" If we take human history as a whole, we're more likely to see an overwhelming sense of indifference, than kindness. Kindness becomes something we see as rare enough to be startled by it. I think you'd have to drink a whole lot of kool-aid, to view humanity as a moral success story. We're better able to perceive what it means to be Good, than actually living it.
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28-04-2015, 10:34 AM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 08:11 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(28-04-2015 08:09 AM)Losty Wrote:  What is GFY?

It means- Go f*** yourself.

You can say fuck. No one will hurt you.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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28-04-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 10:34 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(28-04-2015 08:11 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It means- Go f*** yourself.

You can say fuck. No one will hurt you.

Unless we wanna. But it won't be for saying fuck. It'll just be random cathartic violence Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-04-2015, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2015 01:25 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 08:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  You've been talking to Stevil for too long.

Yea, it's kind of hard being a theist, arguing with atheists who subscribe to some form of moral realism. You risk sounding too much like Stevil, while finding Stevil's arguments even more unbelievable, yet more consistent, and less contradictory.

Quote:Preservation of the species is a basic instinct, as is self preservation.

Everything is covered by those facts, including the conflict.

That is all. Drinking Beverage

So what does that mean? When we take another man as slave, when we oppress and victimize him, does this mean we're acting against our instincts?

Do good people act more instinctually than bad people?
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28-04-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 01:22 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  So what does that mean? When we take another man as slave, when we oppress and victimize him, does this mean we're acting against our instincts?
I'd say it'd be more likely to instinctively want the guy to be your slave - we didn't exactly evolve from the *nicest* members of the tribe. Nice is good for survival up to a point, but being the dominant male/family/tribe also carries pretty good genetic benefits. Civilization is the process of fighting some of our baser instincts for no apparent reason.

Quote:Do good people act more instinctually than bad people?
Do Jabber people act less ooga than Wocky people?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-04-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 10:34 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(28-04-2015 08:11 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It means- Go f*** yourself.

You can say fuck. No one will hurt you.




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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28-04-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 10:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-04-2015 09:07 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  We are successfully empathetic toward our offspring, family, and "our own," which is all our genes need of us to proliferate.

Tell that to the 60% of black kids who grow up without their biological fathers. But sure when it comes to empathy, we'd likely find more success among families, and close friends, than outside of this.

Quote:As far as history goes, there have been horrible things and amazing things. I don't think I would call all of human history a moral failing.

There's not just amazing things, and horrible things. There's also indifference. “The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference" If we take human history as a whole, we're more likely to see an overwhelming sense of indifference, than kindness. Kindness becomes something we see as rare enough to be startled by it. I think you'd have to drink a whole lot of kool-aid, to view humanity as a moral success story. We're better able to perceive what it means to be Good, than actually living it.

By successful, I mean that we have shown enough empathy to have rampant population growth around the globe. We have proliferated successfully. Again, which is what our genes want to do.

Along with empathy, which allows for our offspring to survive, we are also selfish, which allows us to survive. Selfishness and empathy come out in different ways. Even together. We evolved to be empathetic toward our children so our genes would be passed down, which is ultimately selfish.

I think the whole idea of trying to decide whether humanity has been a moral success or failure is pointless. First, the concept of morality has changed over time, so a fluid definition also gives a fluid success rate. Second, you're right, nature is indifferent. The whole world, humanity included, is just plodding along, trying to live the one life we've got. No morality necessary, just an instinct for survival. Luckily for a lot of us, survival is not such a challenge anymore, so we can spend our spare time philosophizing. Thus, the concept of morality was born.

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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28-04-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
(28-04-2015 01:22 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-04-2015 08:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  You've been talking to Stevil for too long.

Yea, it's kind of hard being a theist, arguing with atheists who subscribe to some form of moral realism. You risk sounding too much like Stevil, while finding Stevil's arguments even more unbelievable, yet more consistent, and less contradictory.

Quote:Preservation of the species is a basic instinct, as is self preservation.

Everything is covered by those facts, including the conflict.

That is all. Drinking Beverage

So what does that mean? When we take another man as slave, when we oppress and victimize him, does this mean we're acting against our instincts?

Do good people act more instinctually than bad people?

I don't post on these forums enough, and hopefully I will do so more frequently because I enjoy the dialogue on here. Forgive me if I don't know enough about your background, but I'll assume you're Catholic for now. I'm still a Catholic but I'd say in name only. As of now I'm agnostic, but I'm in the closet with it.

I don't see how morality can be an innate thing imprinted on the hearts of mankind by a creator. When you look back at history, it's clearly an evolved system of beliefs that civilizations codified into laws and a code of acceptable behaviors that people practice in order to be good members of society. You talk about slavery. Well, it hasn't been until relatively recent in human history have we gotten to the point to where we viewed all member of home sapiens as being alike regardless of our skin color or distinctive features that divide us into races of people. Today, slavery is not condoned in any country in the world today - at least officially. Go back 50 to 100 years and people in the U.S. still didn't believe that slavery was ethical, but it was ethical to segregate people so that the "better" races, i.e. the WASPS didn't have to rub elbows with Italians, Irish, Poles, African American's, etc. Go back 150-160 years and it was deemed acceptable for parts of the country to own slaves so long as those slaves were peoples from Africa. Go back 500 - 1000 years, and it was deemed acceptable to not only have slaves of different races of people, but you could basically enslave people of your own race via feudalism which was widespread throughout Europe. In the ancient world, the concept of slavery was even more widespread than in feudal Europe where slaves were regularly taken from conquered peoples. Of course, not only slaves for literal work but virgins were taken from conquered peoples and given to others who were the conquerors.

Read the Old Testament and you can see the widespread slaughter of other ancient tribes by Judah and Israel, the taking of slaves and the taking of virgins to be married off to the good Jews.

Morality evolved, and the concept of slavery is a great illustration of how we evolved morally as a people.
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28-04-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Response: Why There Is No Such Thing as a Good Atheist
Quote:How do we explain objective meaning and morality that we know are true?

Begging the question: fifteen yards, and loss of one reader.

Morality is inherently subjective. Even religionists tacitly admit this, when they excuse their god's genocides even as they condemn those of men.

Author needs to quit writing polemics and take up writing ad-copy. It's more his speed.
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