Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
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25-03-2015, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2015 04:07 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
As I notice the easter bunnies coming out in stores and everyone preparing for the holiday, I can't help but giggle when I think about how whenever I ask Xtians what separates their religion from others, and they proudly proclaim "The resurrection!" it just makes me sad to think of the epic level of ignorance so profoundly prevalent in this country. Like most of ancient hero god constructs, jesus was not the only one to have a resurrection fable...

Biblical scholars tell us that the early Christians lived within pagan communities. Jewish scriptural beliefs coupled with the pagan myths of the time give sufficient information about how such a religion could have formed. Many of the Hellenistic and pagan myths parallel so closely to the alleged Jesus that to ignore its similarities means to ignore the mythological beliefs of history. Dozens of similar savior stories propagated the minds of humans long before the alleged life of Jesus. Virtually nothing about Jesus "the Christ" came to the Christians as original or new.

For example, the religion of Zoroaster, founded circa 628-551 B.C.E. in ancient Persia, roused mankind in the need for hating a devil, the belief of a paradise, last judgment and resurrection of the dead. Mithraism, an offshoot of Zoroastrianism probably influenced early Christianity. The Magi described in the New Testament appears as Zoroastrian priests. Note the word "paradise" came from the Persian pairidaeza.

Osiris, Hercules, Hermes, Prometheus, Perseus, Romulus, and others compare to the Christian myth. According to Patrick Campbell of The Mythical Jesus, all served as pre-Christian sun gods, yet all allegedly had gods for fathers, virgins for mothers; had their births announced by stars; got born on the solstice around December 25th; had tyrants who tried to kill them in their infancy; met violent deaths; rose from the dead; and nearly all got worshiped by "wise men" and had allegedly fasted for forty days.

Even Justin Martyr recognized the analogies between Christianity and Paganism. To the Pagans, he wrote: "When we say that the Word, who is first born of God, was produced without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven; we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter (Zeus)."

Virtually all of the mythical accounts of a savior Jesus have parallels to past pagan mythologies which existed long before Christianity and from the Jewish scriptures that we now call the Old Testament. The accounts of these myths say nothing about historical reality, but they do say a lot about believers, how they believed, and how their beliefs spread.

But I digress, lets look at the Easter holiday which is based on the resurrection myth, take notes COTW, this is for your sake as well Big Grin

I would like a Xtian to walk me through easter. Tell me exactly what happened on the day that their most important doctrine was born. Without the resurrection, there is no Christianity. Paul wrote, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not." (I Corinthians 15:14-15)

The conditions of the question are simple and reasonable. In each of the four Gospels, begin at Easter morning and read to the end of the book: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Also read Acts 1:3-12 and Paul's tiny version of the story in I Corinthians 15:3-8. These 165 verses can be read in a few moments. Then, without omitting a single detail from these separate accounts, write a simple, chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension: what happened first, second, and so on; who said what, when; and where these things happened. Since the gospels do not always give precise times of day, it is permissible to make educated guesses. The narrative does not have to pretend to present a perfect picture--it only needs to give at least one plausible account of all of the facts.

One of the first problems I found is in Matthew 28:2, after two women arrived at the tomb: "And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it." (Let's ignore the fact that no other writer mentioned this "great earthquake.") This story says that the stone was rolled away after the women arrived, in their presence.

Yet Mark's Gospel says it happened before the women arrived: "And they said among themselves, Who shall roll away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great."

Luke writes: "And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre." John agrees. No earthquake, no rolling stone. It is a three-to-one vote: Matthew loses. (Or else the other three are wrong.) The event cannot have happened both before and after they arrived.

Some bible defenders assert that Matthew 28:2 was intended to be understood in the past perfect, showing what had happened before the women arrived. But the entire passage is in the aorist (past) tense, and it reads, in context, like a simple chronological account. Matthew 28:2 begins, "And, behold," not "For, behold." If this verse can be so easily shuffled around, then what is to keep us from putting the flood before the ark, or the crucifixion before the nativity?

Another glaring problem is the fact that in Matthew the first post-resurrection appearance of Jesus to the disciples happened on a mountain in Galilee (not in Jerusalem, as most Christians believe), as predicted by the angel sitting on the newly moved rock: "And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him." This must have been of supreme importance, since this was the message of God via the angel(s) at the tomb. Jesus had even predicted this himself sixty hours earlier, during the Last Supper (Matthew 26:32).

After receiving this angelic message, "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." (Matthew 28:16-17) Reading this at face value, and in context, it is clear that Matthew intends this to have been the first appearance. Otherwise, if Jesus had been seen before this time, why did some doubt?

Mark agrees with Matthew's account of the angel's Galilee message, but gives a different story about the first appearance. Luke and John give different angel messages and then radically contradict Matthew. Luke shows the first appearance on the road to Emmaus and then in a room in Jerusalem. John says it happened later than evening in a room, minus Thomas. These angel messages, locations, and travels during the day are impossible to reconcile.


Luke says the post-resurrection appearance happened in Jerusalem, but Matthew says it happened in Galilee, sixty to one hundred miles away. Could they all have traveled 150 miles that day, by foot, trudging up to Galilee for the first appearance, then back to Jerusalem for the evening meal? There is no mention of any horses, but twelve well-conditioned thoroughbreds racing at breakneck speed, as the crow flies, would need about five hours for the trip, without a rest. And during this madcap scenario, could Jesus have found time for a leisurely stroll to Emmaus, accepting, "toward evening," an invitation to dinner? Something is very wrong here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course, none of these contradictions prove that the resurrection did not happen, but they do throw considerable doubt on the reliability of the supposed witnesses. Some of them were wrong. Maybe they were all wrong. Inability to completely disprove the possibility of the resurrection is not empirical evidence it must have happened. It is possible I have a midget purple unicorn in my backyard too, but a thinking person would be skeptical, and require proof...

This question could be harder. I could ask why reports of supernatural beings, vanishing and materializing out of thin air, long-dead corpses coming back to life, and people levitating should be given serious consideration at all. Thomas Paine was one of the first to point out that outrageous claims require outrageous proof.

Protestants and Catholics seem to have no trouble applying healthy skepticism to the miracles of Islam, or to the "historical" visit between Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni. Why should Christians treat their own outrageous claims any differently? Why should someone who was not there be any more eager to believe than doubting Thomas, who lived during that time, or the other disciples who said that the women's news from the tomb "seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not" (Luke 24:11)?

I ask this question in all seriousness, because it astounds me how people can believe in something so important and with such passion, yet not have actually looked at what it is they are celebrating/believing in.

You will find that the trip from A-Z via the gospels will lead you in 4 different paths.

As I have pointed out before many times, there also exists no proof that there was a worldwide darkness from 3-6pm, not one civilization noted this presumably shocking event. Not one literate person noted at the time that his death caused a zombie invasion either...surely that would have gotten someone's attention. I find it fascinating that the mythical god didn't ensure this most important event was properly recorded for the demanded abject worship of his favorite creations. Like all other stories in the bible, it comes apart at the seams upon close inspection and reflection.

The mind, like a parachute, only works if it is open, a closed mind stops learning.

I stand by with bated breath for the walkthru of easter based on the gospels.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-03-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
What if it wasn't Jesus' tomb but that of the lazerus and they had the wrong one? The story of Jesus and lazerus happened in the same area where Jesus was resurrected and had a stone removed. Also there was a burial cloth and a napkin that was on his head. it was the same situation. Maybe they forgot that days earlier there was another resurrection.
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25-03-2015, 04:35 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
Resurrerrection -- The unlikely act of getting a second hardon, by the sexually repressed - mostly a Christian ailment -- by the closeted devout gay guys who want to kill all gays.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-03-2015, 04:39 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
(25-03-2015 04:29 PM)Ocean theRAPIST Wrote:  What if it wasn't Jesus' tomb but that of the lazerus and they had the wrong one? The story of Jesus and lazerus happened in the same area where Jesus was resurrected and had a stone removed. Also there was a burial cloth and a napkin that was on his head. it was the same situation. Maybe they forgot that days earlier there was another resurrection.

oh the tangled web we weave Big Grin

Perhaps they were all too busy prom dancing with the zombies downtown to go forth and witness this magical event. Consider

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-03-2015, 06:26 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
(25-03-2015 03:44 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  There is no mention of any horses, but twelve well-conditioned thoroughbreds racing at breakneck speed, as the crow flies, would need about five hours for the trip, without a rest.

Well Jesus could be in more than one place at once and he has the ability to ride two asses at the same time, so why not ride 5 horses or one helicopter? You have to admit to the reality of helicopters. Hey, it could happen.




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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25-03-2015, 08:18 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
Anyone ever notice that the only "gospel" which claimed that jesus came out of the tomb was so fucking stupid that even early xtians wouldn't put it in the bible?

Quote:39. And while they were narrating what they had seen, they saw three men come out from the sepulchre, two of them supporting the other and a cross following them (40) and the heads of the two reaching to heaven, but that of him who was being led reached beyond the heavens. 41. And they heard a voice out of the heavens crying, ‘Have you preached to those who sleep?’, 42. and from the cross there was heard the answer, ‘Yes.’


--Gospel of Peter 9

Yes, truly a giant, walking, talking, cross. Glad to see that early xtians had some sense.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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25-03-2015, 09:51 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
Easter


"it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

From Shakespeare's MacBeth.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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25-03-2015, 10:43 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
When all else fails, break out the chocolate.

[Image: chocolate_heresy.jpg]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-03-2015, 11:04 PM
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
It should be translated as "exaltation", (not "resurrection") (as in Bart Ehrman's title "How Jesus Became God : The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee"), which Dr. BB Scott agrees with, and in the context of Jewish Apocalypticism, "raised UP = "exalted" makes perfect sense :
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-03-2015, 05:20 AM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2015 05:44 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Resurrection..the myth, the fable, the outrageous lie
(25-03-2015 11:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It should be translated as "exaltation", (not "resurrection") (as in Bart Ehrman's title "How Jesus Became God : The Exaltation of a Jewish Preacher from Galilee"), which Dr. BB Scott agrees with, and in the context of Jewish Apocalypticism, "raised UP = "exalted" makes perfect sense :
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

So is that implying that they just placed the mantle of messiah upon him? They're actually admitting to that by the use of the word "exalted"?

Holy crap, I read your link, wow, so the entire mythology of resurrection was built upon a misunderstanding of a word. The whole story is like an episode of Three's Company gone horribly wrong. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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