Returning to the Father
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27-10-2012, 10:09 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
Egor reminds me of Thomas Jefferson, with scissors. First cutting up the bible, then cutting up his notion of god, and now he is at an impasse.

I think his question is where can I anchor my life that explains things in such a way that I can be open minded, and a good person?

"It is thus superstition infatuates man from his infancy, fills him with vanity, and enslaves him with fanaticism" - Dholbach




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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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27-10-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 10:09 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Egor reminds me of Thomas Jefferson, with scissors. First cutting up the bible, then cutting up his notion of god, and now he is at an impasse.

I think his question is where can I anchor my life that explains things in such a way that I can be open minded, and a good person?

"It is thus superstition infatuates man from his infancy, fills him with vanity, and enslaves him with fanaticism" - Dholbach




I really don't see enough Dan the Man around here and it's a pity. Nice post! Thumbsup

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27-10-2012, 10:14 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
Some reading material for all of you lurkers, and most of all for Egor

Good Sense by baron d' Paul Henri Thiry Holbach
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7319

The System of Nature, or, the Laws of the Moral and Physical World. Volume 2
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8910

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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27-10-2012, 10:24 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 10:14 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Some reading material for all of you lurkers, and most of all for Egor

Good Sense by baron d' Paul Henri Thiry Holbach
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7319

The System of Nature, or, the Laws of the Moral and Physical World. Volume 2
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8910

Let's just cut to the chase. Your video clip reminded me. This is the cure our friend needs:

Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon





Many here keep trying to present science to you, Egor, when it seems you are more of a philosopher. So enjoy this wonderful American Philosopher and may you find peace in your soulless mind. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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27-10-2012, 10:25 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
A taste of D'holbach



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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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27-10-2012, 09:44 PM
 
RE: Returning to the Father
(26-10-2012 11:49 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Egor,

You are definitely a man in turmoil. You've questioned your beliefs, and it appears to me you have the streingth to continue questioning. But here's the truth as I see it; it doesn't matter, at this point, what you decide to believe. My hope for you isn't that you decide to be atheist, but that you find some inner peace. You've struggled with your belief since I met you, and it makes me sad that you can't seem to reconcile the conflict you have within. I like you, and so I hate to see that unrest.

I'll rest when I'm dead, thank you very much. I happen to like the fact that my beliefs are evolving. I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

I like you too, but I want to be as forthcoming as I can: I think atheists bury their heads in the sand and stop growing from that point on. I think that's the whole reason one becomes an atheist. The moment one decides there is no God, there is no spirit, there is nothing but matter, at that moment, they no longer have any existential angst. They no longer have to ask why they are here or what's expected of them in the number of years they have been given to live. They get to be animated dirt. They become spiritual bums.

So, at the risk of ending our love-fest, I'd tell you to save your tears for yourself. Weeping


Quote:Keep asking questions man. But above all else, do what you have to do to be happy. That matters way more than this whole atheist vs theist crap.

Good luck to you. Smile

You, too. Shy
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27-10-2012, 10:20 PM
 
RE: Returning to the Father
(26-10-2012 11:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  So... are you an atheist now?

Edit:
I asked this because of the same thing that Stark said. Just concerned about your state of being.

Here's what seems true to me:

1. The universe has as its primary substance a kind of consciousness.
2. This consciousness created me from its substance.
3. Whether I am real or unreal, illusion, delusion, it doesn't matter: I exist because I am aware of the fundamental consciousness and the fact that I am not the fundamental consciousness.

I think that makes me a theist, but I have no religious notions at all.

(26-10-2012 12:59 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Our anchor is in reality.

So, what is real?

(26-10-2012 01:25 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm still sorry if I offended you.

I really don't know what you're talking about, but whatever it is--I absolve you my child. Now, please flush before you leave the confessional. Lecture_preist

(26-10-2012 02:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I am sure that you have heard plenty of good arguments for and arguments against by now. At this point, you just have to make up your own damn mind, which does not always come easily. If believing in God makes you happy, and facts to the contrary do not cause you too much strife, then go for it. Just please don't push morality from your God on others and we'll be cool. Whatever conclusion you make I wish you happiness.

Please give me one fact that inidcates there is no God. Consider

(27-10-2012 02:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  Egor, maybe you could share (hur hur) with us (aghk, this reminds me so much of prayer group Hobo )


LOL!



Quote:how you came to be Christian in the first place.

I'm not a Christian. I no longer have any religious notions whatsoever. Religion requires faith. I have no faith. I see things, and I make deductions and assumptioins as to what is true. I have no rules, and I believe in no form of salvation. In fact, I deny that there is any salvation. Even if my mind exists after I die, it will become changed very quickly not having input from my body such that I will not be the same person after death that I am in life.


Quote:What gives you this... need/urge/desire for God? It's a difficult road. Everyone seems pretty certain you're headed for atheism one way or another... Obviously you need to think this stuff through for yourself though.

Everywhere I look, I see evidence for the existence of God. Am I just supposed to ignore that?

Quote:Allow me to make a guess: religion does sort of make sense to you. But every time you sit through a sermon or have contact with believers you come away feeling that they're shallow, missing the point, not digging deep enough? At least, that was how it was for me...

Yes, that's how it was for me back when I was a Christian, too.

Quote:For me, it was a gradual process. I got sort of quite into it at one stage, never really could shake the doubts though. And every now and then something would come along which didn't fit. Which made me angry. Like the sermon some clown preached about not being friends with unbelievers. The anti-homosexual stance... I started to really think about things like "where does the Bible even come from"... those kinds of questions. When I asked, the emphasis was much more on shutting me up than answering the damn question... I think that's when I knew that the end was in sight. Hung around a few more years because I couldn't bring myself to break with my good friends but couldn't sustain the lie any longer eventually...

Okay, but you have to understand, I consider the Bible to be a bunch of fictional stories. I consider the prophets to be political liars, and the Gospels to be an innacurate record of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. I consider Jesus Christ too much of a mystery to understand, and I have given up on trying to understand it. Furthermore, if the Ultimate Being really wanted me to be a follower of Christ, it would have incarnated me back when Jesus was alive. If the Ultimate Being wanted me to follow ass clowns in the Church, he would have created me with a lower IQ.

Having said that, confusing religion with God is not a very intellectual position to take. You've heard a lot of people tell you that God supports their religion because they want to control you or get you to agree so they can believe it themselves, but you never hear God agreeing with them. I think God is a completely areligious concept. I think God is much more a study of consciousness than anything else.

But that's me. Angel

(27-10-2012 08:33 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  still spouting the same crap I see Egor.

You really should consider sticking around rather then popping in and out with this nonsense every now and then.
You might pick up on something along the way.

Yeah...Drinking Beverage
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27-10-2012, 11:32 PM
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 09:44 PM)Egor Wrote:  I think atheists bury their heads in the sand and stop growing from that point on. I think that's the whole reason one becomes an atheist. The moment one decides there is no God, there is no spirit, there is nothing but matter, at that moment, they no longer have any existential angst. They no longer have to ask why they are here or what's expected of them in the number of years they have been given to live. They get to be animated dirt. They become spiritual bums.

Not me, fucker. There is a God and it is I.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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27-10-2012, 11:55 PM
RE: Returning to the Father
(26-10-2012 11:29 AM)Egor Wrote:  It’s too easy to become insane with atheism. That is, it’s too easy to ignore all the evidence to the contrary so that we can just exist without any expectations placed upon us. But I don’t want to live in that insanity. No

I'm sure I'm not the first one to say this, but we're not ignoring evidence, especially where your posts are concerned. When you say that we're living in a dream consciousness, we tell you time and time again that there's absolutely no evidence to support that. None. And we're not dodging "expectations placed upon us" any more than you're not a Muslim because you're rebelling against Islam. That line of thinking presupposes that we believe that expectations have been placed upon us, and we don't think that.

We're atheists because of the lacking evidence. We've been presented with "evidence", but it always fails logically. If you want to understand why we're not convinced, I'd again refer you to your stance on Islam, a religion that constantly provides "evidence" that doesn't persuade you, either.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-10-2012, 12:15 AM
 
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 11:55 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We're atheists because of the lacking evidence.

That's true. But you systematically disallow any evidence until there is none left.
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