Returning to the Father
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28-10-2012, 12:20 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 10:20 PM)Egor Wrote:  
Quote:how you came to be Christian in the first place.

I'm not a Christian. I no longer have any religious notions whatsoever. Religion requires faith. I have no faith. I see things, and I make deductions and assumptioins as to what is true. I have no rules, and I believe in no form of salvation. In fact, I deny that there is any salvation. Even if my mind exists after I die, it will become changed very quickly not having input from my body such that I will not be the same person after death that I am in life.

I know you're not a Christian no more Smile I was just interested to know your background. I mean, you were a believer for years... How did you come to that initial belief? Was it upbringing? Some experience like KC had?
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28-10-2012, 12:54 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(28-10-2012 12:15 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-10-2012 11:55 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We're atheists because of the lacking evidence.

That's true. But you systematically disallow any evidence until there is none left.

Because evidence requires standards. Some evidence is better than other evidence, and some "evidence" is so unreliable it isn't evidence at all.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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28-10-2012, 04:10 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
I ain't getting how fundamental monistic consciousness has gender, but other than that, yer shaping up to be a mighty fine prophet. Thumbsup

And some atheists do shut their minds to wonder with their instance on objective evidence, but for the most part, being an atheist is just being not a theist. As for god, I got nine pages of LC thread that links to a multitude of neck, but the LC cannot exist for another as it does for me, and so too with god - the way I see it. :/

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28-10-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
Egor, the very fact that you dont know where you stand or what is right seems to me a good indication your on the right path. As soon as you become sure of something, I think its a pretty good indication youve fallen into believing an assumption. As stark said though, truth is one thing, but your well being is another. Keep up the thinking, but dont forget to break every once and a while and just smell the daisies. Theres a certain truth in enjoying what is, that is independent of why it is.

Your words aside, if I grock your meaning, makes me think you should read a little zen, even if it is an object in futility to read of zen. Maybe the zen that is written, will strike a chord.

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28-10-2012, 04:53 AM
 
RE: Returning to the Father
(28-10-2012 12:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  I know you're not a Christian no more Smile I was just interested to know your background. I mean, you were a believer for years... How did you come to that initial belief? Was it upbringing? Some experience like KC had?

When I was a little kid, I just believed it out of obedience. Then there was about ten years when I was just a guy in my twenties living in England. Then when I was 28, I thought I had this revelation like I really understood the Gospels and what they meant and what Jesus was talking about.

Then I had some pretty negative experiences with churches I tried to attend, and I made up my own thing, Veridicanism. But I kept going back and forth between Veridicanism and Christianity.

Then I read "The Shack," and I vowed never to think religiously again. I also finally admitted to myself that the Bible can say anything you want it to say, and the Gospels are completely indecipherable.

I know that God exists; I know I am a creature of that Creator. That's about all I can say.
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28-10-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(27-10-2012 09:44 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(26-10-2012 11:49 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Egor,

You are definitely a man in turmoil. You've questioned your beliefs, and it appears to me you have the streingth to continue questioning. But here's the truth as I see it; it doesn't matter, at this point, what you decide to believe. My hope for you isn't that you decide to be atheist, but that you find some inner peace. You've struggled with your belief since I met you, and it makes me sad that you can't seem to reconcile the conflict you have within. I like you, and so I hate to see that unrest.

I'll rest when I'm dead, thank you very much. I happen to like the fact that my beliefs are evolving. I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

I like you too, but I want to be as forthcoming as I can: I think atheists bury their heads in the sand and stop growing from that point on. I think that's the whole reason one becomes an atheist. The moment one decides there is no God, there is no spirit, there is nothing but matter, at that moment, they no longer have any existential angst. They no longer have to ask why they are here or what's expected of them in the number of years they have been given to live. They get to be animated dirt. They become spiritual bums.

So, at the risk of ending our love-fest, I'd tell you to save your tears for yourself. Weeping


Quote:Keep asking questions man. But above all else, do what you have to do to be happy. That matters way more than this whole atheist vs theist crap.

Good luck to you. Smile

You, too. Shy

Poor you, you have to get meaning from outside. It must suck to be you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2012, 08:44 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(28-10-2012 12:15 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-10-2012 11:55 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We're atheists because of the lacking evidence.

That's true. But you systematically disallow any evidence until there is none left.

Oh, yeah? Demonstrate that with some actual evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: Returning to the Father
(28-10-2012 12:15 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-10-2012 11:55 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We're atheists because of the lacking evidence.

That's true. But you systematically disallow any evidence until there is none left.

Is that how you came to nonbelief in Islam? Did you "systematically disallow" all the evidence? Or was it all simply weak?

There's a reason I analogized our disbelief with that of yours... I wanted to put you in our shoes so you could actually empathize with us and understand our point-of-view. But you seem to be unwilling or incapable of that.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-10-2012, 08:21 PM
RE: Returning to the Father
I find these Egor threads amusing because he is either trolling the crap out of all of you or you're all trying to convince a schizophrenic that there are no voices in his head.

This is a guy that claims to believe that single-celled organisms have consciousness. This should be your first indication that you're existing reality and entering la la land (or troll land).

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28-10-2012, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2012 08:47 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Returning to the Father
(28-10-2012 04:53 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 12:20 AM)morondog Wrote:  I know you're not a Christian no more Smile I was just interested to know your background. I mean, you were a believer for years... How did you come to that initial belief? Was it upbringing? Some experience like KC had?

When I was a little kid, I just believed it out of obedience. Then there was about ten years when I was just a guy in my twenties living in England. Then when I was 28, I thought I had this revelation like I really understood the Gospels and what they meant and what Jesus was talking about.

Then I had some pretty negative experiences with churches I tried to attend, and I made up my own thing, Veridicanism. But I kept going back and forth between Veridicanism and Christianity.

Then I read "The Shack," and I vowed never to think religiously again. I also finally admitted to myself that the Bible can say anything you want it to say, and the Gospels are completely indecipherable.

I know that God exists; I know I am a creature of that Creator. That's about all I can say.

You are the creator of that creature you call "creator"

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist. Or you could say it is that shared experience upon which we all agree, that is observable, testable, and able to be known.




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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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