Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
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30-09-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(29-09-2015 02:33 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  The game's failure had nothing to do with its gagged nature, except perhaps that several people decided before it began that they didn't like the idea of a gagged game, and were thus reluctant to participate more than they would have else. That's what the real issue was here: lack of participation on all sides.

I haven't played any game where every single player was active (not even the majority, tbh). This was one of my most active games actually. In non-gagged, non-vanilla games, there are roles that help townies form a team, so there's a lot going on in the background, while the main thread may almost be empty. It may not be fun for the mods, but it is for us.

I agree, however, that the main issue was lack of participation. Some people join just for the sake of it. The only time I was the Godfather I lost the game for this exact reason.

(29-09-2015 02:33 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Everyone, the moment Catholic_Lady flipped as the Hooker, you should have recognized that there was a Cop around somewhere. I'm not sure how many of you caught that, but reviewing the setup possibilities at the beginning of the thread will show you why; if there's a Hooker, there are either both power roles or no power roles.

I really should have checked that out again. I did when the doctor died and realized there may not be a cop because there was one such setup, but I was left with that impression without checking it again after we saw there was a Hooker. I screwed up Blush

(29-09-2015 03:23 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  I remember once suggesting on TTA that we should do a day 1 lynch and absolutely no one wanted it. After that I gave up suggesting it. Now I play on other forums I know that it is central to playing Mafia.

Seeing that the odds of winning for both sides are the same in TTA games, I don't see how lynching on Day 1 will make a difference. Lynching on Day 2 is the equivalent here, and even then we don't have much info to go on. I still don't think it needs to be done, since the town needs only one night to start an alliance.

(29-09-2015 03:34 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I still think that the Day phases here are punishingly short, but I can work with them. Hammer ending the phase I consider a vital part of the game, though I could see an argument for fixed-length Nights regardless of time taken to submit Night actions. Ditto for plurality lynches.

I had a big problem with non-fixed phases (eg. Aroura with the hammer vote while I was away). If we know exactly how much time we have, we can adjust our daily lives with it. It seems I have the worst case of time difference in these games and I've lost sleep because of Mafia too many times to count. And hammer voting, well, knowing that people may vote me off before I even wake up sucks.


That said, sorry for throwing a fit yesterday guys. I'm just not used to Mafia being SO frustrating. I may be willing to try a gagged game again, but not without fixed phases. It got me too tired and frustrated. It's also very stressful casually chatting with co-players outside of the forum and being forbidden to talk about it. Not to mention that other people may be talking about it outside of the forum while players are present.

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30-09-2015, 06:11 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 05:41 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I had a big problem with non-fixed phases (eg. Aroura with the hammer vote while I was away). If we know exactly how much time we have, we can adjust our daily lives with it. It seems I have the worst case of time difference in these games and I've lost sleep because of Mafia too many times to count. And hammer voting, well, knowing that people may vote me off before I even wake up sucks.
I was either on the same zone or slightly behind you time-wise. Also found non-fixed phases hard work.

Quote:That said, sorry for throwing a fit yesterday guys. I'm just not used to Mafia being SO frustrating. I may be willing to try a gagged game again, but not without fixed phases. It got me too tired and frustrated. It's also very stressful casually chatting with co-players outside of the forum and being forbidden to talk about it. Not to mention that other people may be talking about it outside of the forum while players are present.
Didn't notice you throwing a fit Tongue Noticed that it's traditional for everyone concerned in a mafia game to apologise profusely for throwing a fit after it ends though Tongue

That said, sorry for throwing a fit yesterday Blush I just... yeah... what can I say...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-09-2015, 06:38 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 05:41 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(29-09-2015 03:23 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  I remember once suggesting on TTA that we should do a day 1 lynch and absolutely no one wanted it. After that I gave up suggesting it. Now I play on other forums I know that it is central to playing Mafia.

Seeing that the odds of winning for both sides are the same in TTA games, I don't see how lynching on Day 1 will make a difference. Lynching on Day 2 is the equivalent here, and even then we don't have much info to go on. I still don't think it needs to be done, since the town needs only one night to start an alliance.

The reason day 1 lynches are good even if town is lynched is because it gives town lots of information to go on. Who switched votes at the last moment, who voted for who etc. On average town do better if they lynch on day 1 for this very reason.

It's counter-intuitive but it is true.

I will need to find the page which show the statistics. In the meantime there's a whole discussion about it here

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4025162
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30-09-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
People take this stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-09-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  People take this stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously Tongue

Found the link!

Cthulhu Dreaming talks about it and links to the stats page from mafiascum.net

http://atheistforums.org/thread-30294-po...#pid846563
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30-09-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 07:11 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(30-09-2015 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  People take this stuff waaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously Tongue

Found the link!

Cthulhu Dreaming talks about it and links to the stats page from mafiascum.net

http://atheistforums.org/thread-30294-po...#pid846563

Those statistics only work in gaged mainly vanilla games. Once you add other moving parts (multiple power roles outside alliances etc) the day 1 lynch becomes a non-factor or even a detriment because you have superior sources of information.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-09-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 09:04 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Those statistics only work in gaged mainly vanilla games. Once you add other moving parts (multiple power roles outside alliances etc) the day 1 lynch becomes a non-factor or even a detriment because you have superior sources of information.

If the setup is so poorly balanced, so dominated by investigative power roles, that the optimum course of action is to sit around and wait for the Cop to tell you who the scum are, then there's really no point in having a game at all. You may as well just have a random number generator tell you whether or not the Cop investigated the right people and won the game. And if the Cop gets taken out, that's game on the spot.

Never, ever go into a game with the intention to rely on the Cop. You must be actively looking for information and trying to root out the scum. The only way to get information is to watch how people react to lynches.

Lynch on Day One. Always.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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30-09-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 10:17 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-09-2015 09:04 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Those statistics only work in gaged mainly vanilla games. Once you add other moving parts (multiple power roles outside alliances etc) the day 1 lynch becomes a non-factor or even a detriment because you have superior sources of information.

If the setup is so poorly balanced, so dominated by investigative power roles, that the optimum course of action is to sit around and wait for the Cop to tell you who the scum are, then there's really no point in having a game at all. You may as well just have a random number generator tell you whether or not the Cop investigated the right people and won the game. And if the Cop gets taken out, that's game on the spot.

Never, ever go into a game with the intention to rely on the Cop. You must be actively looking for information and trying to root out the scum. The only way to get information is to watch how people react to lynches.

Lynch on Day One. Always.

In a non-gagged game (mostly using the flavor roles) you can grill people into either lying (and lynch all liars) or giving up something. No cop needed for that.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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30-09-2015, 10:51 AM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
(30-09-2015 10:37 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  In a non-gagged game (mostly using the flavor roles) you can grill people into either lying (and lynch all liars) or giving up something. No cop needed for that.

Yes, and you can do this in gagged games, too. That's rather the point of Mafia as a whole, in fact. And it doesn't change anything about what I said.

If the game is so dominated by power roles that the Day One lynch, and all the information resulting from it, is a legitimate non-factor, then there's really no point in the game at all.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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30-09-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Revenge of the Mafia - Game Thread
Meh. I think gagged mostly vanilla games are generally so boring that there's really no point in the game at all.

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