Revising the Hippocratic Oath
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-07-2017, 04:59 PM
Revising the Hippocratic Oath
"First, do no harm". That's a really good start. But across the ages we've gotten to where we can routinely go beyond merely doing no harm and doing actual good. So I'd add a sentence to the oath as follows:

"Where having established a reliable remedy, take steps so that none afflicted are excluded from it".

If the cause of medicine is curing what ails us, it makes no sense to develop a pill that works but stop there and make no effort to make the pill universally available. Yet that is what medicine in a capitalist rubric does all the time, resulting in absurdities extreme as Schkreli.

To my mind medicine for profit embodies an intrinsic conflict of interest: instead of relieving pain it simply shifts the type of pain from physical to financial, and risks leaving many sufferers unrelieved, trapped by their financial situation. Instead of the remedy being applied to relieve pain generally its application is primarily to enrich its developer.

The MDs who obtain their degrees principally as a means of getting a Ferrari may successfully hew to upholding the existing Hippocratic oath, but fail to uphold the second part proposed above, which, in an era where developing reliable remedies far outpaces merely doing no harm, do, in fact, violate the first part of the oath after all - they DO wreak harm by not taking steps to put their remedy within the reach of all who need it.

I recognize that there are many instances where literally making a remedy available to everyone who needs it is impracticable for any number of impediments: competing priorities, politics, limited investment capital, etc. But the ideal should be at least sought, and its attainment efforts never abandoned. We flourish best the healthier we all are; leaving segments of society sick so that a few can drive Ferraris corrodes the whole society.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Airportkid's post
18-07-2017, 05:47 PM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
Taking the oath is not required.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-07-2017, 07:11 PM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
Let me start by saying that I believe the best possible quality of medical care should be accessible to all persons, regardless of their income or financial status. BUT...

"The MDs who obtain their degrees principally as a means of getting a Ferrari may successfully hew to upholding the existing Hippocratic oath, but fail to uphold the second part proposed above, which, in an era where developing reliable remedies far outpaces merely doing no harm, do, in fact, violate the first part of the oath after all - they DO wreak harm by not taking steps to put their remedy within the reach of all who need it."

Don't blame the MDs for lack of access to high-cost cures. It is not their responsibility to make cures available to all. The pharmaceutical companies, the government, the health insurance providers, yes, they have some responsibility. That's sort of like saying car manufacturers need to make sure that everyone who buys a car can afford all maintenance and repairs on it forever.

First let's make the point that MDs didn't "invent" the cures, for the most part----drug companies did.

I've known many doctors who contribute a great deal of their time and expertise to provide medical care for people who can't afford it. But if an individual MD didn't *invent* a cure then why would you task him/her with the responsibility of paying for the cost of it any more so than, say, you? Or me? Simply because he/she is in the medical field? I don't know what you do for a living but do you give your services away to people who can't afford them? Or, as the saying goes, do you practice what you preach? Can you afford to? Should a mechanic be expected to replace your car's transmission for free or on a sliding scale simply because he/she has the skills to do so and you don't?

I used to work in a facility where severely disabled children lived (and died) from birth to age six or until they out grew the cribs, whichever came first. Some of those children were "shaken babies." Some were born with conditions that made it virtually impossible for them to be cared for at home and had to have 24 hour medical care. Most were on feeding tubes. Most would never be able to walk or talk. Blind. Deaf. Diaper children for life. Combinations of these conditions. Nearly every one of those children qualified for Medicaid and/or Medicare. But the majority of the funding for that facility came from "private" sources/donors. Like the nearest hospital (the biggest contributor financially and physically). And other hospitals. And many doctors. And other affluent people whose children had lived there.

I once asked my dentist if he would consider taking on some of our children who were on Medicare. He told me that he already had as many medicare/medicaid patients as he could afford to take on. He then told me point-blank that the approximately (at that time) $125 checkup/cleaning fee that he charged us every six months translated into $8 for medicaid/medicare patients. Can you imagine trying to pay off your students loans from med school if you only got paid $8 for every patient you saw?

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes outtathereligioncloset's post
19-07-2017, 08:44 AM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
A quick Google search shows the average doctor is pulling in $200,000 a year. Add in the cost of services/treatment and medicine costs by pharmaceutical companies, its no wonder why healthcare is a mess. It's all about profit now.

It cost $4,500 for my daughter's broken arm. The xrays alone were $750 (for 3 minutes). Oh, and they charged us $611 for "cast removal" which took less than 5 minutes. My mechanic does more difficult work for $25 an hour (really $55 but that's what he gets after the shop takes their cut).

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Lord Dark Helmet's post
19-07-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
In Australia, general practitioners (MDs) earn a higher average income than most non-medical professionals including lawyers, architects, engineers and accountants. The annual income one can expect to earn ranges between AU$200,000 - AU$300,000, depending the contract details.

With an average income of AU$577,000, male neurosurgeons top the list for the highest income status of Australian professionals.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
(19-07-2017 08:44 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My mechanic does more difficult work for $25 an hour (really $55 but that's what he gets after the shop takes their cut).

False equivalence fallacy. If your mechanic installs the wrong type of spark plugs, radiator cap, air filter, or fan belt, it's not gonna potentially cost you your life.

And you seriously think that car maintenance is "more difficult" than thoracic surgery, oncology, neurology, or obstetrics? (Or is this your little joke... I hope?)

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
(19-07-2017 08:44 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  A quick Google search shows the average doctor is pulling in $200,000 a year. Add in the cost of services/treatment and medicine costs by pharmaceutical companies, its no wonder why healthcare is a mess. It's all about profit now.

It cost $4,500 for my daughter's broken arm. The xrays alone were $750 (for 3 minutes). Oh, and they charged us $611 for "cast removal" which took less than 5 minutes. My mechanic does more difficult work for $25 an hour (really $55 but that's what he gets after the shop takes their cut).

Part of the cost is for the knowledge and equipment...but you know that otherwise you would have called up your plaster guy to cast the arm (and hope it was set correctly) and you could have used any number of tools at home when you decided it was healed enough to take the cast off.

I don't suppose one of your people has an X-ray machine.

If your mechanic is making 25 bucks and hour, he's a parts changer, not a mechanic.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Anjele's post
19-07-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
(19-07-2017 10:25 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(19-07-2017 08:44 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  My mechanic does more difficult work for $25 an hour (really $55 but that's what he gets after the shop takes their cut).

False equivalence fallacy. If your mechanic installs the wrong type of spark plugs, radiator cap, air filter, or fan belt, it's not gonna potentially cost you your life.

And you seriously think that car maintenance is "more difficult" than thoracic surgery, oncology, neurology, or obstetrics? (Or is this your little joke... I hope?)

I didn't say that at all. I said my mechanic does more difficult work (recently did my transmission, took 3 days and cost $2,500), compared to about 90 minutes at the hospital for a broken arm at $4,500. We're not talking about some major surgery here. X-rays. Cast. Come back 8 weeks later to remove cast. That's a ripoff. It'd be like my mechanic charging me $15,000 for my transmission.

I understand some things are going to cost more. Neurosurgery for instance. But they seriously overcharge for simple things. No joke my daughter recently went to the emergency room for kidney pain. Thought she had kidney stones. Turned out to be an infection. $1,200 for a urinalysis and a doctor to prescribe antibiotics. She has her own medical insurance through her job at Starbucks so she didn't have to pay, but damn. No wonder insurance costs are so high. These hospitals are out of control with the charges.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2017, 01:21 PM
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
Unfortunately, the cost of "inventing" new medicines, techniques, equipment, etc. that goes into the diagnostic and healing process relies on the free market.

Or...is that fortunately? Are our socialist/communist nations "inventing" such new stuff?

At any rate, this "inventing" is very, very expensive. Many of us owe our lives to it.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Jeanne's post
19-07-2017, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2017 01:51 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Revising the Hippocratic Oath
@Jeanne

Well yes they do invent and discover new treatment and medecine on a very frequent basis. Some of the countries with the highest rate of Nobel Prize and major discovery in the field of medecine have a fully socialised medecine like Germany, Sweden, Canada, Japan, the UK, France, etc. In most if not all cases, research on vaccines and treatments are massively financed by governements because its too expansive for businesses who must make profit regularly and quickly to retain investors. They make much more money selling vitamines and cough sirup that doesn't work than by developping remedies for cancer.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like epronovost's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: