Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
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27-10-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 08:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Still playing shrink I see

And stop being a pansy. If you can freely interpret other people’s mental states, don’t complain when others do the same to you.

Quote:I get it. Reality is hard. Truth isn't always nice and pleasant to hear. The cognitive dissonance is deeply ingrained in you, and yet here you are...on an atheist forum...peddling your bullshit.

You’re the guy constantly defining yourself as not peddling affirmative beliefs, just disputing them. Yet, you somehow think there’s some affirmative truth that you’ve been peddling, and my cognitive dissonance is preventing me from acknowledging it?

So please tell me what that “Truth” is, that I’m so adamantly denying? And are you willing to go to bat for that Truth, to arguing in the affirmative for it? Of course you’re not.

Quote:Are you that insecure in your beliefs that you feel the need to constantly defend your faith to atheists

No, I’m secure enough in my religious beliefs that I don’t need to hang out with folks on the internet who actively stroke my ego. I’m secure enough that I’m not dependent on other people’s support, or high fives, and likes, or constant needs for attention as you do. I’m secure enough that I have little dependency on towing any particular party line.

I’m secure enough that when someone such as yourself likes to dish-out remarks about my mental states, I’m not particularly bothered by it, and take it as an invitation to do the same with yours, finding it amusing when you whine about it. I’m secure enough that I’m not dependent on anyone coddling me, you on the other hand, all you want is to be coddled.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-10-2015, 09:04 AM
Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Still playing shrink I see

And stop being a pansy. If you can freely interpret other people’s mental states, don’t complain when others do the same to you.

Quote:I get it. Reality is hard. Truth isn't always nice and pleasant to hear. The cognitive dissonance is deeply ingrained in you, and yet here you are...on an atheist forum...peddling your bullshit.

You’re the guy constantly defining yourself as not peddling affirmative beliefs, just disputing them. Yet, you somehow think there’s some affirmative truth that you’ve been peddling, and my cognitive dissonance is preventing me from acknowledging it?

So please tell me what that “Truth” is, that I’m so adamantly denying? And are you willing to go to bat for that Truth, to arguing in the affirmative for it? Of course you’re not.

Quote:Are you that insecure in your beliefs that you feel the need to constantly defend your faith to atheists

No, I’m secure enough in my religious beliefs that I don’t need to hang out with folks on the internet who actively stroke my ego. I’m secure enough that I’m not dependent on other people’s support, or high fives, and likes, or constant needs for attention as you do. I’m secure enough that I have little dependency on towing any particular party line.

I’m secure enough that when someone such as yourself likes to dish-out remarks about my mental states, I’m not particularly bothered by it, and take it as an invitation to do the same with yours, finding it amusing when you whine about it. I’m secure enough that I’m not dependent on anyone coddling me, you on the other hand, all you want is to be coddled.

Comes on an atheist forum as a theist, and insults atheists for being on a forum of atheists by implying it's about "ego stroking."

Ever occur to you that some of us came to an atheist forum to get away from dishonest fucks like you?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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27-10-2015, 09:07 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 09:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 05:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Your starting to show your hands. That your desire to erect a non-historical Jesus, is less driven by reason and evidence, but out of desire to deflate Christianity.

You want to argue for a mythicist Jesus, while painting this belief as unbelievable. Yet, according to folks like Carrier this is the sort of Jesus, Paul and the earliest Christians believed, a Jesus composed of moral and spiritual truths, but no historical ones.

So what is it? Either there was a sustainable version of an early Christianity not dependent on historical truths, just spiritual and moral ones, or there wasn't.

All total made-up crap. All a complete lie. I never said anything even remotely resembling anything like any of that. You NEED to convince yourself, (we need no convincing), that your beliefs are *resonable*. You have no clue what my "desire" is. You see facts (or the absence of them) as a threat. You are paranoid.

Quote:So what is it? Either there was a sustainable version of an early Christianity not dependent on historical truths, just spiritual and moral ones, or there wasn't.

Thanks for that. Proof of your intellectual dishonesty, (or utter ineptitude).

Complete shifting of the goal posts. This is NOT a discussion of an "historical version of early Christianity", (which YOU have disingenuously and obviously and dishonestly attempted to turn it into). It's a discussion of whether there is any real evidence for thinking that that there really was a specific PERSON who is called and today referred to as "Jesus". There is not. You have used all sorts of contorted bullshit to try to say there is, including the fact that you claim there were believers in him. I'm not arguing for a "mythicist Jesus", (while actually YOU said you could believe in one). I wanted to see someone pull down Carrier's and Price's arguments. You have not even tried. All you did was call them names. You don't even know what their arguments are or recognize one when you read one.

The fact is there were a number of dying and rising messiah figures, more than one was said to "rise on the third day", no record-keeping systems, or records available from the time, and the content of the preaching (the "golden rule") was content which was ubiquitous in the LATE 1st Century, as the rabbis tried to make Judaism palatable AFTER the temple destruction, to the diaspora. Therefore, there is NO WAY we will ever know if there was an historical Jesus. The myths surrounding the Jesus which Christians reference are suspect, as they contain so many impossible inaccuracies, and contradictions, and many good reasons to think that cult followers used or invented some sort of an amalgamation of all the various Jesus/messiah figures, conflating them, then raised them to cult status to worship. There are many many elements that simply don't "fit" with Hebrew culture of that specific period in the cult's eventual development and "output" as they developed their belief system. Does it all matter ? Probably not. Every human believer's brain "assembles" their OWN idea of this "Jesus myth", and what that may mean to them. Every Christian, (and maybe non-Christian) that recites a "creed" has their OWN ideas about what the words mean and refer to. It's all totally irrelevant, in the end, whether he actually did or did not exist. He will never be seen again. "Memory" of him will eventually die out in human history. But you have convincingly demonstrated again and again, you have no ability, no facts, and no arguments AT ALL to even begin to argue against Carrier and Price's arguments agtainst an historical Jesus.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-10-2015, 09:13 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
Also, when have I tried playing shrink? Consider

I don't pretend to know your emotions and I don't make presumptions about your life or life history, but you do.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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27-10-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Comes on an atheist forum as a theist, and insults atheists for being on a forum of atheists by implying it's about "ego stroking."

Ever occur to you that some of us came to an atheist forum to get away from dishonest fucks like you?

Please, any insults that I've leveled are exclusively reserved for you, not anyone else.

There's a simple solution to getting away from me, quit hovering around every post of mine, putting your two cents in. We could always just agree to mutually ignore each other, but I don't think that's preferable to you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-10-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 09:04 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Comes on an atheist forum as a theist, and insults atheists for being on a forum of atheists by implying it's about "ego stroking."

Ever occur to you that some of us came to an atheist forum to get away from dishonest fucks like you?

Please, any insults that I've leveled are exclusively reserved for you, not anyone else.

There's a simple solution to getting away from me, quit hovering around every post of mine, putting your two cents in. We could always just agree to mutually ignore each other, but I don't think that's preferable to you.

Any guesses as to why I don't leave you alone?







(hint the answer is, other people on the forum continue to recognize your blatant dishonesty)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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27-10-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:23 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Any guesses as to why I don't leave you alone?

(hint the answer is, other people on the forum continue to recognize your blatant dishonesty)

So what's your purpose again?

To paint me in a particular sort of way, and then to get everybody to agree with your depiction? Perhaps to run me out of town or something? What's your end goal here?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-10-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 09:23 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Any guesses as to why I don't leave you alone?

(hint the answer is, other people on the forum continue to recognize your blatant dishonesty)

So what's your purpose again?

To paint me in a particular sort of way, and then to get everybody to agree with your depiction? Perhaps to run me out of town or something? What's your end goal here?

No, I just let you paint your own picture

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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27-10-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
(27-10-2015 09:13 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, when have I tried playing shrink? Consider

I don't pretend to know your emotions and I don't make presumptions about your life or life history, but you do.

Well, you clearly seem to think you know my intentions, and make a variety of appeals to delusions, cognitive dissonance, the effects of indoctrination, if these are not interpretations of a person's mental states, then I'm not sure what they are.

You imagine that you somehow figured me out, and got a good finger on it, derived from your folk psychology. You clearly put me in some box, and are quite vocal about it Yet you don't particularly like it when I take the liberties to the do same to you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-10-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: Richard Carrier On the Historicity of Jesus
For all of youz guyz:

[Image: calm-down-bro_o_134037.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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