Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
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30-10-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 10:01 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 09:29 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. You obviously haven't even read or looked at what I presented, and have attempted NOT ONE refutation of ONE point, or presented ONE reasoned argument.
There is no point in "dissecting" a preposterous irrelevant situation, as it has no actual bearing on real moral choices, nor can it, in any way enlighten a discussion of this matter, nor have you established HOW exactly it is relevant. No one here lives on a desert island, and most of us do not CHOOSE psychotic friends. Every preposterous irrelevant situation, does not require addressing. You said, (disingenuously), "The question presented on an atheist forum by a theist is obviously directed only to atheists (everyone knows the answer of a theist already)", when in fact we all know there is no one "theist" position, on any moral question, and in fact this infantile question is answered by Social Science, (which you obviously have no background in). There is no reason to "dissect" an irrelevant pile of crap. If you had any intellectual honestly, you would have stated your position, demonstrated EXACTLY HOW IT IS RELEVANT, and asked for ideas. You came here to preach your bullshit, and self-righteous church lady superiority. You failed.

Re-present the ONE point you think is most significant to you.

Present your position, and stop playing games.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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30-10-2013, 10:46 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
thesis:
The morals of atheists are equally good, if not better, as the morals of theists

Moral values are, to some extend, subjective. This is true for both theists and atheists. There is
variation of moral values among atheists, and also among theists. There is great variation among
different religions, among different denominations of one religion, and even with one denomination
of a religion. Theists claim that morals are absolute, yet, given these variations among atheists,
there is no basis for such a claim.

Arguably, the morals of atheists are better, because they are more likely to question and reflect
upon their morals, and adjust if necessary. Theists will just accept the morals of their church
dogmas', and accept these without questioning them, no matter how draconian such morals may be.
This may lead to "holy wars" etc.
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30-10-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 07:40 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 08:56 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  When it comes to the OP, it's all semantics. That's all his argument has going for him is semantics.

When you explain why, then you'd be saying something.

Leave the term "moral" out of it, see if I care.

If you are in a land with no government, and you see a stranger kill another stranger merely because he didn't like the way he combed his hair, do you have any basis for thinking, objectively, that "he SHOULD NOT have done that"? Or, that "he acted badly"? Or, "That his self-determination to do it was wrong"?

Your question has been answered many times by many people, but if you refuse to read the answers, there is no point answering.

And, what makes you think that you can come here and expect people to answer your questions, but that you can refuse to answer any yourself?

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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30-10-2013, 10:58 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 10:01 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  Re-present the ONE point you think is most significant to you.

You're a douchebag. Tongue

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30-10-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 10:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 10:01 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  Re-present the ONE point you think is most significant to you.

Present your position, and stop playing games.

Either you have something in mind or you don't. I am not the one playing the game.
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30-10-2013, 11:17 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 10:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 07:40 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  When you explain why, then you'd be saying something.

Leave the term "moral" out of it, see if I care.

If you are in a land with no government, and you see a stranger kill another stranger merely because he didn't like the way he combed his hair, do you have any basis for thinking, objectively, that "he SHOULD NOT have done that"? Or, that "he acted badly"? Or, "That his self-determination to do it was wrong"?

Your question has been answered many times by many people, but if you refuse to read the answers, there is no point answering.

And, what makes you think that you can come here and expect people to answer your questions, but that you can refuse to answer any yourself?

Two atheists responded that it was a circular argument, one or two said morals didn't matter, then there was the golden rule, another law, recently, statistics, etc.

Answering a question doesn't make it a correct answer. My further questions are showing why the already given answers are wrong. I am proving those two atheists who said it was circular were correct. By definition, circular arguments are a fallacy.
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30-10-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 11:06 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 10:21 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Present your position, and stop playing games.

Either you have something in mind or you don't. I am not the one playing the game.

You created this thread, you asked the questions, you received answers. Go back and find them, it's not fair to make us do your work for you. Either that or we can be done here and you can go away.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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30-10-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 11:19 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  You created this thread, you asked the questions, you received answers. Go back and find them, it's not fair to make us do your work for you. Either that or we can be done here and you can go away.

Okay, so I didn't see anything significant in the first place, and you did. Yet you cannot remember what, and you expect me to go find something I never thought was significant in first place!
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30-10-2013, 11:36 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 11:17 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 10:52 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Your question has been answered many times by many people, but if you refuse to read the answers, there is no point answering.

And, what makes you think that you can come here and expect people to answer your questions, but that you can refuse to answer any yourself?

Two atheists responded that it was a circular argument, one or two said morals didn't matter, then there was the golden rule, another law, recently, statistics, etc.

Answering a question doesn't make it a correct answer. My further questions are showing why the already given answers are wrong. I am proving those two atheists who said it was circular were correct. By definition, circular arguments are a fallacy.

And I suppose you will be the judge of what's a correct answer? How so?


Quote:I am proving those two atheists who said it was circular were correct. By definition, circular arguments are a fallacy.

So your question contains a logical fallacy, what's your point?

Is there a point?

Also why don't you answer your own question?

Quote:If you are in a land with no government, and you see a stranger kill another stranger merely because he didn't like the way he combed his hair, do you have any basis for thinking, objectively, that "he SHOULD NOT have done that"? Or, that "he acted badly"? Or, "That his self-determination to do it was wrong"?

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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30-10-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(30-10-2013 07:40 AM)Dearthair Wrote:  Leave the term "moral" out of it, see if I care.

If you are in a land with no government, and you see a stranger kill another stranger merely because he didn't like the way he combed his hair, do you have any basis for thinking, objectively, that "he SHOULD NOT have done that"? Or, that "he acted badly"? Or, "That his self-determination to do it was wrong"?
Q: Do you have any basis for thinking, objectively, that "he SHOULD NOT have done that"?
A: No, but I would see this person as a potential threat to myself, maybe he won't like the way I smile, or the way I wipe my arse. So maybe I kill him before he has a chance to kill me.

Q: Or, that "he acted badly"?
A: I am no judge of if a person is good or bad, I can only judge if they are a threat to me.

Q: That his self-determination to do it was wrong
A: Until I've walked a lifetime in the other person's shoes, I cannot know what is the right or wrong decisions for them. People can do as they please, if I see them as a threat to myself or my loved ones then I will act accordingly
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