Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
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27-10-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
What I find more interesting is why morals matter anyway?

I mean, if we are trying to answer a question : does god exists or not, morals of theists or atheists carry no weight in the matter.

Even if all atheist were baby eaters , or crazy murderers rapist that doesn't mean that god exist.
And vice versa, even if all theists were child molesters that wouldn't mean god doesn't exist.

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27-10-2013, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2013 05:38 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 06:16 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  What I find more interesting is why morals matter anyway?

I mean, if we are trying to answer a question : does god exists or not, morals of theists or atheists carry no weight in the matter.

Even if all atheist were baby eaters , or crazy murderers rapist that doesn't mean that god exist.
And vice versa, even if all theists were child molesters that wouldn't mean god doesn't exist.

I understand what you are saying. Many theists think they have made some big slam dunk by saying you can't have morals without having a belief in gawd and a religious doctrine that you adhere to. We know that isn't true. You can be a decent person without following religious rules. In my opinion, being a decent person because you inherently know it's the right thing to do carries more weight than being a decent person in order to gain brownie points for the afterlife.

Stark's rule is the best one...don't be a dick. That about sums it up.

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27-10-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
Why stop at an Island? Why not apply "morals" to asteroids carelessly floating through space, black holes, quantum physics.........

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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27-10-2013, 08:03 PM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 07:38 PM)bemore Wrote:  Why stop at an Island? Why not apply "morals" to asteroids carelessly floating through space, black holes, quantum physics.........

If an asteroid crashes into earth I don't care about the philosophy of morals. I'm gonna call it a dick move regardless.

Punk ass asteroid. Like it ain't got room to fly. Dodgy

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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27-10-2013, 08:34 PM
Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 01:59 PM)Dearthair Wrote:  I am a thinking theist, and I was wondering if y'all think there is any right & wrong on an island not owned by any country, and no man-made laws yet applying to it.

Examples, and why?

Yes.
It would be wrong to kill, for example.
This is because of the golden rule: treat others as you would like to be treated.

And now a question to a thinking theist.
Does God determine what is right or wrong?
And if so, would you torture innocent infants if God ordered you to?
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27-10-2013, 11:42 PM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 08:34 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  Yes.
It would be wrong to kill, for example.
This is because of the golden rule: treat others as you would like to be treated.

There are multiple instances within our own culture where people violate the golden rule themselves - it's a nice idea but I don't think I'd feel bad about killing someone e.g. in self-defense. And as far as I can see all 'wrong' means is 'you should feel bad if you do X'.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-10-2013, 05:34 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 07:38 PM)bemore Wrote:  Why stop at an Island? Why not apply "morals" to asteroids carelessly floating through space, black holes, quantum physics.........

Because that's stupid.

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28-10-2013, 05:40 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 01:59 PM)Dearthair Wrote:  I am a thinking theist

I'll reserve judgement on that question.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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28-10-2013, 05:43 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 05:46 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I think things would go well for a while until Steve looks over at Jim and thinks about how Jim has a nicer hut and while he could build a bigger hut it would be much easier to just kill Steve. However killing was made against the rules because it isn't something you'd want someone to do to you.
So Jim will think on it for a day or so and decide that he spoke to an mystical being in the sky who only he can see. This being says it created them and has a place waiting for them when they die. But only if they obey. One of the rules is that Steve must die and Jim gets his hit and his ten daughters.
People will scoff at the idea at first until Jim mentions that if people don't obey they will suffer for an eternity. Then people will come around to the idea.
Steve will die. The crops will flourish coincidentally and all will believe they have made the mystical sky daddy happy. Thus religion will overtake the island until the population gets really big. Then a dude named jerry will hear a voice from god saying that Jim was a false prophet and there were other rules they needed to learn. This will create a rift between staunch jimtians and the new jerrytians. War will break out on the island. Many will die. Such is human nature.

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28-10-2013, 06:31 AM
RE: Right & Wrong on a Desert Isle
(27-10-2013 11:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-10-2013 08:34 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  Yes.
It would be wrong to kill, for example.
This is because of the golden rule: treat others as you would like to be treated.

There are multiple instances within our own culture where people violate the golden rule themselves - it's a nice idea but I don't think I'd feel bad about killing someone e.g. in self-defense. And as far as I can see all 'wrong' means is 'you should feel bad if you do X'.

Sure there are exceptions to the no-kill rule. As a general rule, not killing, is quite OK. And the exceptions are also derived from the golden rule. I have no need
for a right to kill, except in situations where I have to defend myself with
deadly force to survive. In those cases, I would like to have the right to
use deadly force. Naturally, because of the golden rule, I would like to extend
those same rights to other people, not just myself.
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