Rights of life...
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31-01-2016, 04:52 AM
Rights of life...
Been musing over a few thoughts recently, sharing them here to see people's opinions.

1: If humanity could produce clones that would be made, raised and trained to be slaves, that have certain traits removed so they are basically emotionless and mindless drones, only interested in performing tasks, would you support such a thing and why?

2: If your consciousness could be copied and put into a machine that for all intents and purposes, performs exactly like a biological human being, that can recieve sensory information, has memories and can create new ones through experience and learning and has emotion, should that machine have the same rights as a biological human being? If so why?

When I say "rights" I mean the rights that we all have in our respective countries. So that would be freedom, protection from harm and exploitation and the right to exist.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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31-01-2016, 05:05 AM
RE: Rights of life...
(31-01-2016 04:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  Been musing over a few thoughts recently, sharing them here to see people's opinions.

1: If humanity could produce clones that would be made, raised and trained to be slaves, that have certain traits removed so they are basically emotionless and mindless drones, only interested in performing tasks, would you support such a thing and why?

2: If your consciousness could be copied and put into a machine that for all intents and purposes, performs exactly like a biological human being, that can recieve sensory information, has memories and can create new ones through experience and learning and has emotion, should that machine have the same rights as a biological human being? If so why?

When I say "rights" I mean the rights that we all have in our respective countries. So that would be freedom, protection from harm and exploitation and the right to exist.


1 - No, because if we have that technology, we can do it better with machines. Using a living creature would seem to be a needless waste, in both resources and extra suffering. That being said, I'm a meat eater that would totally get behind artificial meat once we can economically generate artificial protein, because I think animals deserve better too.


2 - I don't know. Should it? Possibly, to an extent. Just how many copies of you should be allowed the right to exist? What kind of effort needs to be put into ensuring said existence, and for how long? Once we're no longer constrained by the limits of biology, I imagine that the human race will have a lot of things to reconsider.

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31-01-2016, 05:10 AM
RE: Rights of life...
(31-01-2016 04:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  Been musing over a few thoughts recently, sharing them here to see people's opinions.

1: If humanity could produce clones that would be made, raised and trained to be slaves, that have certain traits removed so they are basically emotionless and mindless drones, only interested in performing tasks, would you support such a thing and why?

That's an interesting question. I guess I don't really care if someone else wants to try it, but I don't think I want an emotionless drone or clone of myself. A good robot would be cool though!

2: If your consciousness could be copied and put into a machine that for all intents and purposes, performs exactly like a biological human being, that can recieve sensory information, has memories and can create new ones through experience and learning and has emotion, should that machine have the same rights as a biological human being? If so why?

When I say "rights" I mean the rights that we all have in our respective countries. So that would be freedom, protection from harm and exploitation and the right to exist.

If I became a machine, I would want all of the same rights.
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31-01-2016, 05:18 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2016 05:24 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Rights of life...
Also, as a follow up to 2.


If we ever reach the point of being able to copy ourselves to a computer, to replace or substitute our wetware with hardware or artificial wetware, then the possibility of networked consciousness needs to be taken into account. The idea that humanity would be able to communicate on a speed and scale never yet seen, allowing the passage of not only information, but emotions, feelings, memories, and experiences? Would we, in effect, lose ourselves? Would existence as a hive mind be a net positive for our species? Was does being an individual even mean in an existence where such things as memories and experiences can be duplicated and are easily transferable pieces of discreet information? In such a scenario, where would you start and another distinct entity truly begin? Just what would be the nature of human consciousness, identify, or the very nature of the human experience be in such a world? Would we strive to hold onto our individuality, and if so, how would we do it? Possibly by adopting surrogate bodies, pretending to be the biological machines we once were, or would like to be?


You can see these themes and questions arise time and again throughout science fiction. In everything from the replicants of Bladerunner, the artificial host bodies of humanity used to ensure our survival in the face of a forced exodus and possible extinction by way of the destruction of Earth seen in Xenoblade Chronicles X, to the civilization of advanced networked AI's known as the Geth in Mass Effect, or to the hypothetical perfect democracy of a humanity who's consciousnesses are linked globally by nano-machines in one of the possible endings of Deus Ex: Invisible War.

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31-01-2016, 05:51 AM
RE: Rights of life...
(31-01-2016 04:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  Been musing over a few thoughts recently, sharing them here to see people's opinions.

1: If humanity could produce clones that would be made, raised and trained to be slaves, that have certain traits removed so they are basically emotionless and mindless drones, only interested in performing tasks, would you support such a thing and why?

2: If your consciousness could be copied and put into a machine that for all intents and purposes, performs exactly like a biological human being, that can recieve sensory information, has memories and can create new ones through experience and learning and has emotion, should that machine have the same rights as a biological human being? If so why?

When I say "rights" I mean the rights that we all have in our respective countries. So that would be freedom, protection from harm and exploitation and the right to exist.

1. Yes please. I'd like two please.
I've managed to find a few "mindless drones, only interested in performing tasks" but damn! do they get emotional for a few days every month.

How do I order the emotionless model?

2. I'm not completely certain that that has not already happened. How could I tell, because I am already that machine?

So, yes, of course I'd like the rights I already have (and some).

Good questions.

Consider

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31-01-2016, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2016 10:10 AM by Heatheness.)
RE: Rights of life...
Your questions seem to me to be about the rights of consciousness and sentience.

1. No, I would object to creating a race of slaves. I see many complication here, would they feel pain, would they be disposable and so forth. Frankly, I find the idea of letting man play god repulsive. This is exactly why we have such horrible social ills today.

2. Consciousness/sentient is where the rights of humans begin, so yes.

Would I choose to do that... I would certianly consider it. "Oh captian, I want an andriod body." Maybe.

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31-01-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Rights of life...
1. Whatever for? Create more humans with frail, deteriorating bodies? We have too many already. What about diseases? Food supply? Sounds like a bad idea to me.

2. Of course sentient beings should have the same rights, regardless of the shell they inhabit.

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31-01-2016, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2016 08:58 AM by Adrianime.)
RE: Rights of life...
1. No because of compassion/empathy/sympathy and because of desensitization. Our compassion/empathy/sympathy would cause us to be hurt by watching like-creatures treated in such a manner...at least until we were desensitized. And that would be the problem. Once we stop caring --at a large scale-- what humans (or human-like creatures) deserve or need, we all inch towards behaving like sociopaths (or psychopathy might be the right term).

2. Difficult to answer. If it were actually the consciousness of a once-living person (to the point where you could not discern their personality from the original) I would say yes they should retain rights. If the "consciousness" was completely algorithmic then no, they shouldn't have rights that approach human rights. Yes to the first scenario because at that point the entity basically becomes (or continues to be) what we think of as an individual. It would be hard to argue that such an individual deserves different treatment from others.

No to the second point because constructed personalities are still just programs, and as far as I'm concerned should never be treated as more than that.

In the first case, which would basically be a form of assisted living, I would want rules in place that would prevent a host and the android result to not be allowed to "live" concurrently. IOW, you can't just start copying yourself or your friends for fun.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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31-01-2016, 07:06 AM
RE: Rights of life...
1. If having mindless drones benefits those with the capacity to produce them, it will happen.

2. I would reason that those with the most resource control are the most likely to undergo such a change, creating a context in which these hypothetical cyborgs would hold more leverage than conventional, fully biological humans. Since groups in search of more rights typically end up using whatever leverage they have to force the change they desire, I'd assume that they'll probably end up having more rights, not equal or less rights.

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31-01-2016, 08:28 AM
RE: Rights of life...
(31-01-2016 06:57 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  1. No because of ompassion/empathy/sympathy and because of desensitization. Our compassion/empathy/sympathy would cause us to be hurt by watching like-creatures treated in such a manner...at least until we were desensitized. And that would be the problem. Once we stop caring --at a large scale-- what humans (or human-like creatures) deserve or need, we all inch towards behaving like sociopaths (or psychopathy might be the right term).

Good point!

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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