Rights of the child
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04-01-2012, 04:07 PM
Rights of the child
I started writing a post in "driving with minors" but I felt it got too long and too offtopic so I am starting one here.
Backround I looked into the Circumsition thread and the driving with minors thread and human rights as well as child rights came up.

I worked with children, with poor, rich, smart, and stupid people.
Everyone should have rights (and duties) according to their needs

And as children are the big topic in this thread here a quick summary of my opinion about rights for children:
Children should have the right to:
- live and sleep in a clean(ish) place
- get education / visit preschool and school
- have two meals a day
- not be harmed willingly and/or knowingly in any way

Depending on their age they also should have duties:
- do their best at preschool / school to be a good student
- be respectful towards other people
- help at home (as being part of the family)
- not harm others willingly and/or knowlingly

And these are only the basics. I would like to offer a child a bit more depending on age, abilities, intelligence, etc.

At least once I have a child I would like to offer the following:
- keep them curious and open to the new
- educating it about everything that seems interesting to it
- teaching and having it understand moral values
- have them socialized with children their age
- keeping it healthy
- teaching it to be a free thinker


Here some interesting material on rights of the child for whoever is interested (no wikipedia at all):
Convention on the rights of the child
Children's rights in Ireland
FAQ on children's rights in USA
children's rights in india

cheers

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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05-01-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: Rights of the child
(04-01-2012 04:07 PM)Leela Wrote:  Children should have the right to:
- live and sleep in a clean(ish) place
- get education / visit preschool and school
- have two meals a day

I view these as privelages. I don't see how these are inherant rights.

Depending on their age they also should have duties:
- do their best at preschool / school to be a good student
- be respectful towards other people
- help at home (as being part of the family)

I see these as expected of any child provided such privelages.


At least once I have a child I would like to offer the following:
- keep them curious and open to the new
- educating it about everything that seems interesting to it
- teaching and having it understand moral values
- have them socialized with children their age
- keeping it healthy
- teaching it to be a free thinker

This is just good parenting. Again, not a right. It's a privelage that some children are lucky enough to have


I was just talkign with KC and decided that I don't think I believe in any inherant rights. To believe that we are born with rights means that someone has granted us those rights. We have the rights that are granted to us by our government but that doesn't apply to everyone in the world. I think we have no rights but only privelages. I don't have a right to life but am privelaged to live in a country where people aren't trying to kill me every day. People in the Congo or Syria wouldn't be as privelaged.

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05-01-2012, 03:25 PM
RE: Rights of the child
Expanding on what germanyt said:

We were also talking about the semantics of "inherent". No one has "inherent" rights because there would have to be a standardization of this right across the world instead of localized to a particular community, state, or country.

If it was truly "inherent" then it wouldn't have to be defined as it is in the Constitution. Since we are governed by the US Constitution, our "inherent" rights are life, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness; however, these are not "inherent" across the world, so they are not "inherent rights".

Even life isn't an inherent right since it isn't consider one across the whole of humanity.

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05-01-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: Rights of the child
(05-01-2012 03:25 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Expanding on what germanyt said:

We were also talking about the semantics of "inherent". No one has "inherent" rights because there would have to be a standardization of this right across the world instead of localized to a particular community, state, or country.

If it was truly "inherent" then it wouldn't have to be defined as it is in the Constitution. Since we are governed by the US Constitution, our "inherent" rights are life, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness; however, these are not "inherent" across the world, so they are not "inherent rights".

Even life isn't an inherent right since it isn't consider one across the whole of humanity.


Agreed. I understand the rights granted to me by my government but I just can't grasp any inherant rights.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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05-01-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Rights of the child
You guys are actually making a point.

Though if children do not have certain rights, they at least should. Just like every person should. But grown people can make themselves heard better and can stand and fight for certain rights.
Children can't that is why they should have rights provided by law and enforced by the authoryties.
We are in pretty much civilized parts of the world and in order to make your life once you leave the house you need to get some things. In order to get some things (food, shelter, education) you need to have a right and a law and enforcement.
There are laws against beating your child to death because it has a right to live. There is (maybe not in US but in all other countries i have ever been to) a law for children to go to school because your child has the right to be educated. If you don't have these laws those children wouldn't get what they need because too many parents don't care.

Of course I want to be a good parent, but I am not like most of the parents. Most of the parents have no clue how to treat a child and how to educate and care for it properly.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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05-01-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Rights of the child
The rights that are generally accepted as inherent are simply those directly derivable from the Golden Rule.
They are the necessary quid pro quo for living in society with other people.
They are the minimum rights for peaceful civilization.

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05-01-2012, 04:27 PM
RE: Rights of the child
(05-01-2012 04:07 PM)Leela Wrote:  You guys are actually making a point.

Though if children do not have certain rights, they at least should. Just like every person should. But grown people can make themselves heard better and can stand and fight for certain rights.
Children can't that is why they should have rights provided by law and enforced by the authoryties.
We are in pretty much civilized parts of the world and in order to make your life once you leave the house you need to get some things. In order to get some things (food, shelter, education) you need to have a right and a law and enforcement.
There are laws against beating your child to death because it has a right to live. There is (maybe not in US but in all other countries i have ever been to) a law for children to go to school because your child has the right to be educated. If you don't have these laws those children wouldn't get what they need because too many parents don't care.

Of course I want to be a good parent, but I am not like most of the parents. Most of the parents have no clue how to treat a child and how to educate and care for it properly.

I agree with you but I also think it varies from location to location. A BFE farmer's kid doesn't really have the right to an education outside of learning to run a farm. As for beating children to death, I'm not sure whether the law exists because of a divine right to life that everyone feels or because violence towards children is offensive to the majority.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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06-01-2012, 04:16 AM
RE: Rights of the child
Well everyone has the right to live, children are a part of everyone. I think that is the point. But a lot of people have the opinion that children are not people yet, which is rubbish to me.
As for the farmer's kid. I know in US the education is a little weird. Especially as everyone is allowed to home school their kids. Which basically means that every idiot can be like "yeah we do home schooling" but for real he is doing nothing.
But in Europe children have to go to school and if they don't the parents get into trouble. This is the right approach in my opinion because they need to learn basic things for later. Reading, basic maths, some basic knowledge.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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06-01-2012, 08:12 AM
RE: Rights of the child
(06-01-2012 04:16 AM)Leela Wrote:  Well everyone has the right to live, children are a part of everyone. I think that is the point. But a lot of people have the opinion that children are not people yet, which is rubbish to me.
As for the farmer's kid. I know in US the education is a little weird. Especially as everyone is allowed to home school their kids. Which basically means that every idiot can be like "yeah we do home schooling" but for real he is doing nothing.
But in Europe children have to go to school and if they don't the parents get into trouble. This is the right approach in my opinion because they need to learn basic things for later. Reading, basic maths, some basic knowledge.

Umm. Home schooling isn't as easy as that. It's often a better education than the public school system depending on where you live. Home schooling institutions have to approve you as a teacher, they provide the curriculum, and you still have to score well on any number of standardized tests. Home schooled kids are often more intelligent/better educated than the average public school graduate. And in my 28 years I've probably met less than a dozen people that I knew were home schooled.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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