Riot in France
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21-07-2013, 03:08 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 12:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 04:08 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The laws are in place so that they can easily identify individuals during terrorists threats. Since I live less than 5 hours away from Paris, I can tell you that those threat alerts are very often. Muslim radicals have recently been using women to sneak bombs into public places here in Europe.

I'm sure there are justifications. Is it really true that legislating that people can't wear head-scarves makes you safer ? I mean I could just wear a jacket with bombs underneath...

Other countries don't legislate this regarding women.

I can see that it helps with ID so I can understand a law e.g. that says you must have no head covering in an ID photo...

It also states that you cannot wear it in public transportation, or in crowded business areas.

(21-07-2013 01:21 AM)kim Wrote:  I'm not "supporting" anyone. In general, I'm ambivalent about the entire situation.

Yes you are, whether you want to or not. You are on the side of the Muslim right if you want the law repealed.

(21-07-2013 01:21 AM)kim Wrote:  I think legislating what people wear is bullshit. Although I think extreme groups take advantage of this kind of situation just to cause mayhem, I also think enforcement of this legislation to be just as extreme.

I don't when it means the safety of the rest of the population.

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21-07-2013, 03:09 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 01:57 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm with kim 100% on this one. This is a disgusting case of discrimination and religious intolerance. How would you feel in her shoes? Just think about it from her point of view as objectively as you can. Fuck France's garb laws.

I would understand if it meant public safety.

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21-07-2013, 03:55 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 03:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 01:21 AM)kim Wrote:  I think legislating what people wear is bullshit. Although I think extreme groups take advantage of this kind of situation just to cause mayhem, I also think enforcement of this legislation to be just as extreme.

I don't when it means the safety of the rest of the population.

It's not a lot of people who wear the headscarf, and of those, who are a danger? What data supports this idea that banning the headscarf is better for public safety ?

Also this crap of "if you say X then you are supporting the Muslim right" isn't helluva convincing. Sharing a view that headscarf laws are discriminatory does not imply sharing a view that burning down embassies is a value adding activity.
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21-07-2013, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2013 06:54 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 03:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  It's not a lot of people who wear the headscarf, and of those, who are a danger? What data supports this idea that banning the headscarf is better for public safety ?

Banning headscarves in those specific places makes it easier to identify potential terrorist threats. It is not as though they are prohibited from doing it at all. There are specified places where they must take it off for quick and easy identification.

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21-07-2013, 07:47 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 03:09 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 01:57 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm with kim 100% on this one. This is a disgusting case of discrimination and religious intolerance. How would you feel in her shoes? Just think about it from her point of view as objectively as you can. Fuck France's garb laws.

I would understand if it meant public safety.

I think it's about assimilation and reducing divisiveness. Not saying it works, just sayin'.

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21-07-2013, 09:24 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 07:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 03:09 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I would understand if it meant public safety.

I think it's about assimilation and reducing divisiveness. Not saying it works, just sayin'.

The populace might share those undertones, but the policy is in place for that reason.

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21-07-2013, 09:34 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 09:24 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 07:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  I think it's about assimilation and reducing divisiveness. Not saying it works, just sayin'.

The populace might share those undertones, but the policy is in place for that reason.

I don't understand the mindset of those who emigrate and then want to change their destination. Unless that desire is not innocent.

If you don't like the way things are done in France (or Denmark, or the U.S., or ...) don't fucking go there.

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21-07-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 09:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 09:24 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The populace might share those undertones, but the policy is in place for that reason.

I don't understand the mindset of those who emigrate and then want to change their destination. Unless that desire is not innocent.

If you don't like the way things are done in France (or Denmark, or the U.S., or ...) don't fucking go there.

Yeah, just go to the fucking Netherlands. They accept almost anybody.

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21-07-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: Riot in France
I understand it perfectly well. Suppose you are born into a shitty country, like Afghanistan. You have an opportunity to move to France, a place with much more opportunities and freedom. Although France is much better for yourself and provides more opportunities for your children they hace laws on the books like the one that caused the riots. Wouldn't you want to change those laws.

You can't always move into a country that shares your ideals (A place like that probably doesn't exist anyway). At best you might be able to just make an upgrade. Might be imperfect, but an upgrade nonetheless. There is nothing wrong with trying to improve it (or change it so that it is an improvement in your opinion).

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21-07-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 12:52 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I understand it perfectly well. Suppose you are born into a shitty country, like Afghanistan. You have an opportunity to move to France, a place with much more opportunities and freedom. Although France is much better for yourself and provides more opportunities for your children they hace laws on the books like the one that caused the riots. Wouldn't you want to change those laws.

You can't always move into a country that shares your ideals (A place like that probably doesn't exist anyway). At best you might be able to just make an upgrade. Might be imperfect, but an upgrade nonetheless. There is nothing wrong with trying to improve it (or change it so that it is an improvement in your opinion).

The issue of trying to change the very basis of that country's culture and laws is a problem.

Let's see, move to Western democracy, demand Sharia Law. Consider
That's a problem.

Move to European country, demand they stop do European things.Consider
That's a problem.

Move to country with different language, refuse to learn that language.Consider
That's a problem.

They need to make the best of it. They need to change and adjust.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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