Riot in France
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22-07-2013, 02:26 AM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 10:02 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It is this type of legislation that leads to the likes of the TSA, a government organization that only increases in power over time and causes more problems than they solve.

No, my melodramatic friend, I provided a link showing what the bill entails. It is not banning the wearing of the headscarf, it is prohibiting it in certain areas in which identification is required, eg large shopping centers, public transportation, etc. They are free to wear it at their homes or in less crowded areas. The ban includes helmets, masks, balaclava, niqābs, and other religious veils. This is not an attack on the Islamic community.

(21-07-2013 10:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hmmm... well it's a problem but I think maybe they solve it in the wrong way. Airports don't require people not to wear face coverings, yet they are still perceived as safe. I still don't quite buy the security line. Banks for example could easily scan people as they go in and out.

Airports in France do require you to remove helmets, masks, and veils.

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22-07-2013, 03:22 AM
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 02:26 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Airports in France do require you to remove helmets, masks, and veils.

Airports elsewhere don't... They might if you're passing through a security check area such as before boarding a plane. Are they less safe ? Is the increase in safety that much that the law should be insisted on as absolutely essential ?
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22-07-2013, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2013 03:53 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 03:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Airports elsewhere don't... They might if you're passing through a security check area such as before boarding a plane. Are they less safe ? Is the increase in safety that much that the law should be insisted on as absolutely essential ?

I don't know, are they? Since the passing of the bill, France hasn't had any terrorist attacks. Prior to the bill, they had at least one annually.

Oh, are you sure about that? Germany doesn't allow it. The Netherlands doesn't allow it. Switzerland doesn't allow it. Spain doesn't allow it. Not in airports. Oh, and I encourage you to walk into a major U.S airport with a motorcycle helmet on and see what that lands you. If not an arrest, you will be pulled aside for questioning.

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22-07-2013, 04:25 AM
RE: Riot in France
I was just going off my experience of airports in countries I've been through... none of which seemed to have a problem with veiled women. Mind you that's a few Asian countries, a couple of African ones, Dubai, and the UK... so maybe not a representative sample... But the fact remains that there are public spaces in the world where veiled women are not regarded as a threat. Maybe that's because those countries are not likely to be targeted by terrorists.
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22-07-2013, 04:34 AM
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 04:25 AM)morondog Wrote:  I was just going off my experience of airports in countries I've been through... none of which seemed to have a problem with veiled women. Mind you that's a few Asian countries, a couple of African ones, Dubai, and the UK... so maybe not a representative sample... But the fact remains that there are public spaces in the world where veiled women are not regarded as a threat. Maybe that's because those countries are not likely to be targeted by terrorists.

The UK isn't even anything out of the ordinary in that list. They have some of the most vocal groups of Islamic fundamentalists causing their government to cower in fear.

As for those in the United States, I wouldn't expect you to understand. Most of you have never been to Europe for extended periods of time, so you probably don't understand the issue each nation faces with the massive influx of Islamic immigrants.

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22-07-2013, 06:25 AM
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 02:26 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 10:02 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It is this type of legislation that leads to the likes of the TSA, a government organization that only increases in power over time and causes more problems than they solve.

No, my melodramatic friend, I provided a link showing what the bill entails. It is not banning the wearing of the headscarf, it is prohibiting it in certain areas in which identification is required, eg large shopping centers, public transportation, etc. They are free to wear it at their homes or in less crowded areas. The ban includes helmets, masks, balaclava, niqābs, and other religious veils. This is not an attack on the Islamic community.

(21-07-2013 10:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  Hmmm... well it's a problem but I think maybe they solve it in the wrong way. Airports don't require people not to wear face coverings, yet they are still perceived as safe. I still don't quite buy the security line. Banks for example could easily scan people as they go in and out.

Airports in France do require you to remove helmets, masks, and veils.

This.

Example, when I fill my motorbike up with gas I legally have to remove my helmet before going inside to pay. It's so if I decide to rob the joint they can identify me.

It's not some hellish law DL that leads to total government control... it's a law that's been around for a while actually...

DL, you have a very unrealistic and stupid view of government.

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22-07-2013, 06:35 AM
RE: Riot in France
The very fact that a sizable portion of the Islamic community in Europe perceives the legislation as a direct, malicious attack specifically aimed at their religion demonstrates their childish, destructive mindset. Europe will coerce the Muslim population with stronger legislation, deport them back to their countries, or become Muslim theocracies. The first option seems to be the direction Europe is heading towards.

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22-07-2013, 08:14 AM
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 06:35 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Europe will coerce the Muslim population with stronger legislation, deport them back to their countries, or become Muslim theocracies. The first option seems to be the direction Europe is heading towards.

I thought you guys were keen on personal freedoms and so forth... And what about those Muslims born in Europe ? You wanna deport them too ?

Theocracy argument is... not exactly convincing either. They'd have to attain majority population *and* overcome all the resistance... and if they did, if that's what the majority wanted... isn't that democracy ?
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22-07-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Riot in France
(22-07-2013 08:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 06:35 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Europe will coerce the Muslim population with stronger legislation, deport them back to their countries, or become Muslim theocracies. The first option seems to be the direction Europe is heading towards.

I thought you guys were keen on personal freedoms and so forth... And what about those Muslims born in Europe ? You wanna deport them too ?

Theocracy argument is... not exactly convincing either. They'd have to attain majority population *and* overcome all the resistance... and if they did, if that's what the majority wanted... isn't that democracy ?

Theocracies are not democratic.

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22-07-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: Riot in France
So the way to defend against your *democratic* country becoming a theocracy by vote of the people is... ?
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