Riot in France
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23-07-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: Riot in France
Muslims made a video only available in French called "Trappes , police , nikab , émeute , les médias vous mentent , voici ce qui s'est réellement passé [Trappes , police , niqab , riot , the medias lie to you , here what's really happened] : youtube.com/watch?v=9Wb93wIZp7M

Resume (this resume is only about the arrestation) : They said that a woman with her husband and her child of four month had a control of identity (all the family had this control of identity) by police officers (when that happen you must show your "carte national d'identité" or national identity card [ID] in English language). They collaborated after the police said somethings like "ici t'est en France [Here you're in France]" , "tenue de chauve-souris ce n'est pas le carnaval" [Clothes of bat this is not the carnaval]. The mother explain that she're not OK about what they said , a police officer pushed her (the speaker don't know exactly what's happened because he said that he can't explain what's happened). The daughter take part in this conflict and said something like "vous ne touchez pas à ma mère" [Don't touch my mother]. After they tell others violence commited by police officers. They busted the couple (the speakers tell that the couple don't beat the police officers).

Personal think : They believe maybe really what they say or they practise the taqiyya (Arabic : تقية ).
What is it ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
For me theirs version is probably untrue. I already saw muslims insult the police and fight with them (it was not in Trappes).
After the muslims accuse the police to beat them so then that they are those who started the battle , this is a classic.
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24-07-2013, 04:56 PM
RE: Riot in France
(21-07-2013 03:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 01:21 AM)kim Wrote:  I'm not "supporting" anyone. In general, I'm ambivalent about the entire situation.
Yes you are, whether you want to or not. You are on the side of the Muslim right if you want the law repealed.


No, it means exactly what I said - I'm ambivalent about the entire situation. I stated nothing about wanting any law repealed. I have mixed feelings which take into account not just governing laws but also those who might be governed.

(21-07-2013 03:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(21-07-2013 01:21 AM)kim Wrote:  I think legislating what people wear is bullshit. Although I think extreme groups take advantage of this kind of situation just to cause mayhem, I also think enforcement of this legislation to be just as extreme.
I don't when it means the safety of the rest of the population.

Wouldn't it be just as prudent to outlaw young men carrying backpacks in public transportation, or in crowded business areas? That wouldn't go over very well in the US - not even in Boston.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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24-07-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: Riot in France
(24-07-2013 04:56 PM)kim Wrote:  No, it means exactly what I said - I'm ambivalent about the entire situation. I stated nothing about wanting any law repealed. I have mixed feelings which take into account not just governing laws but also those who might be governed.

You said they were justified in their violent, disruptive, and childish behavior.

Quote:The police went to extremes in this situation if they did the things stated in the articles. So, I think protest would be the thing to do - bonfires and all.

Don't tell me you were remaining neutral.

(24-07-2013 04:56 PM)kim Wrote:  Wouldn't it be just as prudent to outlaw young men carrying backpacks in public transportation, or in crowded business areas? That wouldn't go over very well in the US - not even in Boston.

Because you can identify a person who has a backpack. The hijab, burqa, niqab, coifs, turbans, veils, motorcycle helmets, masks, and anything else that hide people's identity are prohibited in specific areas. It is common fucking sense.

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25-07-2013, 08:52 AM
RE: Riot in France
First of, secularism is part of the constitution. This has led to various, more grievious incidents than the demonstrations in Trappes. Most notably when equality of marriage right was being drafted into law. About 30 years agi, when Mitterand tried to suppress Catholic (and other religious) schools, demonstrations were even bigger than the massive ones for marriage.
Second to get things in perspective, we're at the second or third generation of Muslim immigrants from former colonies. Immigration flow tends now to be either stable or revert.
Unemployment rates and the number of ID checks are higher on the immigrant population. When anything happens, especially involving cops, it gets blown out of proportions fast by a population that is always too happy to get to throw rocks at the Police and destroy public and private property. That is some crappy catharsis but I guess they get bored once in a while.
In general, cops tend to do their job seriously. Now going to make US friends... once in in a while, some zealous, racist or drunk cop (sometimes all of the above) thinks he's a cowboy and this is Texas. Some misshap ensues. Sometimes a kid that was the wrong skin color at the wrong time dies. Suburbs erupt for a while. That's the context of what happened in Trappes.

As for religious symbols, the law about them includes all «ostentatious» religious symbols. Theory makes it include crosses and kippas. I have yet to hear a Christian fundamentalist was expelled from a public school for wearing a big ass cross.
Administration offices, public service and public schools prohibit wearing religious symbols during working hours. In general, because immigrants are generally integrated, accomodations are made when there is no risk of prozelitism. Private businesses accomodate with various religious obligations as they may. This months, it includes scheduling diner breaks for people following the Ramadan.

Contrarilly to what Marine Le Pen and her racist Front National may claim, we're in no more danger of becoming an islamic nation as we are of becoming a catholic one. Most probably less because there's no Muslim political party in the senate while the Chrétiens Démocrates (anti abortion, anti gay, anti non-white... well close to GOP ideas) does siege there.
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