Rocks with bad intentions
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10-08-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 10:56 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 10:53 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You are doing exactly what I said don't do. This is unequivocally an event without a consciousness involved.

If that's the case, then here is your argument.

If you have a universe with no god, then you have a universe with no god.

Do you not read what I write? This is a spoof of an idiotic assertion by a theist to ascribe meaningless words to an argument to straw man the opposing position.

It is a spoof of the attempt to shift the burden of proof. "Prove the universe was unintentional."

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10-08-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 10:56 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 10:53 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You are doing exactly what I said don't do. This is unequivocally an event without a consciousness involved.

If that's the case, then here is your argument.

If you have a universe with no god, then you have a universe with no god.

No, the argument is "show any evidence of a god (intentionality)".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-08-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 09:11 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Given some of the more recent attempts on the forum by theists to ascribe intentionality to the universe (including examples that require conscious actors), I submit the following example.

Rock falls off cliff and kills man unintentionally. World stunned that rock was able to tell world it wasn't intentional.

Is there any scenario where a rock (no conscious actor involved, including pushing the rock as that would mean the rock pusher killed them using the rock) kills a man intentionally?

While the rock might not, the trajectory of the rock might. If I see a rock flying in a near straight line hitting Bob square on the back of the head, we'd likely assume it was intentional, even if we didn't see the agents involved. Where as if we just saw a rock rolling down a hill, we might assume it was unintentional.
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10-08-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 11:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 09:11 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Given some of the more recent attempts on the forum by theists to ascribe intentionality to the universe (including examples that require conscious actors), I submit the following example.

Rock falls off cliff and kills man unintentionally. World stunned that rock was able to tell world it wasn't intentional.

Is there any scenario where a rock (no conscious actor involved, including pushing the rock as that would mean the rock pusher killed them using the rock) kills a man intentionally?

While the rock might not, the trajectory of the rock might. If I see a rock flying in near straight line hitting Bob square on the back of the head, we'd likely assume it was intentional. Where as if we just saw a rock rolling down a hill, we might assume it was unintentional.

So, you can't actually show that the rock had intention?

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10-08-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
I want you to provide straightforward evidence for unintentionally on the rock's part. I will wait Drinking Beverage

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10-08-2015, 11:39 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 11:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I want you to provide straightforward evidence for unintentionally on the rock's part. I will wait Drinking Beverage

In the case of the rock, it wouldn't be on the rocks part, it would be on the trajectories part.
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10-08-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 11:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I want you to provide straightforward evidence for unintentionally on the rock's part. I will wait Drinking Beverage

It the case of the rock, it wouldn't be on the rocks part, it would be on the trajectories part.

What the fuck does that mean? A trajectory can have intentions? Okay, show a rock's trajectory has intentions (and once again, we are explicitly talking about an abiotic cause to the rock's dislodgment and direction with velocity).

I will wait Drinking Beverage

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10-08-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What the fuck does that mean? A trajectory can have intentions? Okay, show a rock's trajectory has intentions (and once again, we are explicitly talking about an abiotic cause to the rock's dislodgment and direction with velocity).
I will wait Drinking Beverage

The trajectory can suggest that the rock was thrown intentionally, even without seeing the actual intentional agents, such as in the example of a rock flying in a straight line hitting Bob right square in the eye.

It doesn't have to be the trajectory of course. If I were to come home and find my window cracked, and a sizable rock sitting there amongst the broken glass, I would also assume intentionality as well.
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10-08-2015, 11:51 AM
Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 11:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  What the fuck does that mean? A trajectory can have intentions? Okay, show a rock's trajectory has intentions (and once again, we are explicitly talking about an abiotic cause to the rock's dislodgment and direction with velocity).
I will wait Drinking Beverage

The trajectory can suggest that the rock was thrown intentionally, even without seeing the actual intentional agents, such as in the example of a rock flying in a straight line hitting Bob right square in the eye.

It doesn't have to be the trajectory of course. If I were to come home and find my window cracked, and a sizable rock sitting they're amongst the broken glass, I would also assume intentionality as well.

No one threw it. It is only the Rock and its trajectory.

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10-08-2015, 11:53 AM
Rocks with bad intentions
Now, prove that a rock that became dislodged and killed someone did so unintentionally.

(The unintentionally applies to the rock itself. Can the rock have intentional or unintentional reasons for moving and killing?)

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