Rocks with bad intentions
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13-08-2015, 02:09 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 02:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 02:00 PM)pablo Wrote:  That's correct, loading the dice shows intent.

It does.

Where as if it wasn't loaded, or something of the sort, it would be a fluke.

Coincidence

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13-08-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 02:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The way the term is used by those you've misquoted with respect to the existence of the universe.

I suggest you let other people speak for themselves. If I misquoted or misunderstood Rocketsurgeon, or anyone else, they can clarify that for me. I doubt they need you as their proxy. In fact, you make a terrible proxy.
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13-08-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 02:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 02:00 PM)pablo Wrote:  That's correct, loading the dice shows intent.

It does.

Where as if it wasn't loaded, or something of the sort, it would be a fluke.

Yet the dice themselves still have no intent. Only the person throwing the dice can have intent, or they could unintentionally throw the dice off the table.
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13-08-2015, 02:32 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 02:25 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 02:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The way the term is used by those you've misquoted with respect to the existence of the universe.

I suggest you let other people speak for themselves. If I misquoted or misunderstood Rocketsurgeon, or anyone else, they can clarify that for me. I doubt they need you as their proxy. In fact, you make a terrible proxy.

They've already clarified it for you, but you still ignore it. Facepalm

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-08-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 02:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  Yet the dice themselves still have no intent. Only the person throwing the dice can have intent, or they could unintentionally throw the dice off the table.

If the dice were weighted, we can say the outcome of the role wasn't a fluke, it was intentional. The person throwing the dice could be completely unaware that that the dice were weighted. Yet we can still speak of the outcome of the dice as intentional, where here when we speak of intentionality we're speaking of the dice being created to produce that result, rather than in relationship to the person throwing it.

We can say the dice were created intentionally, we can also say they where weighted intentionally to land on 20 every time.

But yes, intention in one way or the other infers a being. Where as something that implies it was a fluke, implies the result weren't intentional.
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13-08-2015, 03:33 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 03:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 02:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  Yet the dice themselves still have no intent. Only the person throwing the dice can have intent, or they could unintentionally throw the dice off the table.

If the dice were weighted, we can say the outcome of the role wasn't a fluke, it was intentional. The person throwing the dice could be completely unaware that that the dice were weighted. Yet we can still speak of the outcome of the dice as intentional, where here when we speak of intentionality we're speaking of the dice being created to produce that result, rather than in relationship to the person throwing it.

We can say the dice were created intentional, we can also say they where weighted intentionally to land on 20 overtime.

But yes, intention in one way or the other infers a being. Where as something that implies it was a fluke, implies the result weren't intentional.

No. Non-conscious matter or energy can't have intent or unintent. They can't have accidents.

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13-08-2015, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2015 03:51 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 03:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No. Non-conscious matter or energy can't have intent or unintent. They can't have accidents.


Then what would it mean when others imply, we're a fluke, that "we are a cosmic accident."?

And non-conscious objects can have intent, if we assume they are created, where by intent we mean a purpose, or an aim. Watches have an intrinsic purpose to tell time. It's a property of the watch itself. It may have been endowed with it by it's creator, but that purpose is a part of what a watch is.
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13-08-2015, 03:54 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 03:45 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 03:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No. Non-conscious matter or energy can't have intent or unintent. They can't have accidents.


Then what would it mean when others imply, we're a fluke, that "we are a cosmic accident."?

And non-conscious objects can have intent, if we assume they are created, where by intent we mean a purpose, or an aim. Watches have an intrinsic purpose to tell time. It's a property of the watch itself. It may have been endowed with it by it's creator, but that purpose is a part of what a watch is.

Holy shit.

"Cosmic accident" as you've been told means the universe arose out of long odds. You've been told this multiple times now. Do you not read posts?

And no, non-conscious things or energy can't have intent. Things like a watch are made by humans with a specific purpose that the user could intend to use in a certain way.

Actors have intent. Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-08-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(12-08-2015 08:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Holy shit.

"Cosmic accident" as you've been told means the universe arose out of long odds. You've been told this multiple times now. Do you not read posts?

I’m looking for how you reconcile the claim that non-conscious matter or energy can’t have accidents, while the same time implying that an arrangement of non-conscious matter that arose out of long odds, can be referred to as an “accident”?

I can guess at what you’re trying to imply, though it’s not very clear. Perhaps something along the lines that the “accident” is not a property of matter itself, but the “arising out of long odds” part?

Quote:And no, non-conscious things or energy can't have intent. Things like a watch are made by humans with a specific purpose that the user could intend to use in a certain way.

That specific purpose is not extrinsic to the watch, it’s intrinsic to the watch. In fact it's a part of what it means to be a watch. Someone could buy a watch and use it for something other than telling time, perhaps as a paper weight, assigning an extrinsic purpose to it, while it’s intrinsic purpose remains. It’s the difference between a mere paper weight, and a watch being used as a paper weight.
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13-08-2015, 04:23 PM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2015 04:38 PM by pablo.)
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(13-08-2015 03:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 02:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  Yet the dice themselves still have no intent. Only the person throwing the dice can have intent, or they could unintentionally throw the dice off the table.

If the dice were weighted, we can say the outcome of the role wasn't a fluke, it was intentional. The person throwing the dice could be completely unaware that that the dice were weighted. Yet we can still speak of the outcome of the dice as intentional, where here when we speak of intentionality we're speaking of the dice being created to produce that result, rather than in relationship to the person throwing it.

We can say the dice were created intentionally, we can also say they where weighted intentionally to land on 20 every time.

But yes, intention in one way or the other infers a being. Where as something that implies it was a fluke, implies the result weren't intentional.

The point you either fail to grasp or intentionally avoid is that the dice or a rock cannot throw themselves.
If they cannot throw themselves at an intended target, they certainly can't throw themselves at an unintended target.
Can you at least agree with this?
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