Rocks with bad intentions
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10-08-2015, 01:12 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:09 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I mean the exact same thing you mean when you say unintentional with respect to the universe.

When I speak of unintentional with respect to the creation of the universe, I'm speaking about how we got here, whether we're just a product of a series of physical accidents, a fluke, or intended.

Prove the rock is a physical "accident", "fluke", or "unintended" when it killed the guy.
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And I want the same level of proof as you'd accept for the universe or humanity not being the product of your god.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-08-2015, 01:20 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2015 01:29 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Prove the rock is a physical "accident", "fluke", or "unintended" when it killed the guy.

If there was no intentional agent behind it, it would be. We'd say he died by a freak accident, in reference to your example that is.

Quote:And I want the same level of proof as you'd accept for the universe or humanity not being the product of your god.

If I found the case for physicalism convincing. If the argument of us being a product of series of physical accidents, that it's just a fluke that matter organized itself in such a way to produce conscious self-aware creatures, with moral and creative capacities, was compelling to me. The fact the the typical atheists I come across, will just appeal to his lack of belief, rather than argue for this, makes it even less compelling for me.
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10-08-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Prove the rock is a physical "accident", "fluke", or "unintended" when it killed the guy.

If there was no intentional agent behind it, it would be. We'd say he died by a freak accident, in reference to your example that is.

Demonstrate it, don't assert it. I want evidence of unintention on the rock's part.


The same level of evidence for unintention of the universe as you would accept.

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10-08-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Demonstrate it, don't assert it. I want evidence of unintention on the rock's part.

Again, I have no clue what you mean by "unintentional on the rock's part". I defined what I mean by unintentional in regards to the universe, but see no way to translate the term "unintentional on the rock's part"?

Are you merely asking me to demonstrate that a rock rolling down a hill, hitting a bystander walking near by, and killing him, was a fluke, just a coincidence?
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10-08-2015, 01:47 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Demonstrate it, don't assert it. I want evidence of unintention on the rock's part.

Again, I have no clue what you mean by "unintentional on the rock's part". I defined what I mean by unintentional in regards to the universe, but see no way to translate the term "unintentional on the rock's part"?

Are you merely asking me to demonstrate that a rock rolling down a hill, hitting a bystander walking near by, and killing him, was a fluke, just a coincidence?

I'm asking you to show it was unintentional. Annnnnnnnd go

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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10-08-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Prove the rock is a physical "accident", "fluke", or "unintended" when it killed the guy.

If there was no intentional agent behind it, it would be. We'd say he died by a freak accident, in reference to your example that is.

Quote:And I want the same level of proof as you'd accept for the universe or humanity not being the product of your god.

If I found the case for physicalism convincing. If the argument of us being a product of series of physical accidents, that it's just a fluke that matter organized itself in such a way to produce conscious self-aware creatures, with moral and creative capacities, was compelling to me. The fact the the typical atheists I come across, will just appeal to his lack of belief, rather than argue for this, makes it even less compelling for me.

That's all pretty passive agressive bullshit. It's not up to atheists to convince you of anything. It's totally 100% up to YOu to find the truth. Allthese knee jerk stupid apologist words, used incorrectly like "accident". "physicalism", etc etc and this repeated "organied itself" proves you have absorbed NOTHING in past arguments. There are perfectly reaosnable explanations for everything you mention. That fact you are ignorant of them, and *must* plug in your god (of the gaps) to explain it all to you is only a measure of your ignorance, and not how atheists argue or don't argue. All this "typical atheist" crap is so stupid. It's YOUR resonsibility to figure this shit out, and not ours to hand it to you on an "acceptable platter".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-08-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:20 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If I found the case for physicalism convincing. If the argument of us being a product of series of physical accidents, that it's just a fluke that matter organized itself in such a way to produce conscious self-aware creatures, with moral and creative capacities, was compelling to me. The fact the the typical atheists I come across, will just appeal to his lack of belief, rather than argue for this, makes it even less compelling for me.

All talk of flying rocks aside, I actually think you're missing out on one of the most grand concepts discovered by the work of a lot of dedicated people.

I have a very proud belief in the fact that, despite the ever-present holes in our knowledge, we have an astoundingly-clear picture of what happened. We know how old the universe is now, based on predictions which were confirmed by further experiment, we've known the age of the earth through numerous methods for over a century, and we have a really clear picture of the development of life on this planet that has been confirmed by literally dozens of potentially-conflicting methods (all of which agree to an astounding degree of precision). The case is so far beyond the standard a rational person needs for proof--a very high standard, if you're not cluing in to this by our reactions to new proposals/ideas on this board--that it's ludicrous when someone comes in here and dismisses it with a wave of their hand, or points to one of the things we don't know and pretends that it means we don't know anything.

Our world and our universe are marvels of seeming chaos that is in fact ordered by the laws of physics into a place where we can exist, and it is now clear that it does not need god-magic for this to happen: not the lightning, not the thunder, not the stars, and not ourselves.

And that is awe-inspiring, to me. It moves me with its elegant simplicity, more than any poetry or art created by intelligence could ever do. I am humbled by my insignificance amid the vastness of the cosmos, and inspired by the fact that every (larger than hydrogen) atom in my body we now know to have been formed in the hearts of long-dissipated ancient supernovae. We are tiny motes of star-stuff, revolving on one of billions of chunks of rock around a middle-sized, average yellow star out of hundreds of billions of such stars, rotating along on a back-edge of an outer spiral arm of one galaxy out of hundreds of billions, all composed of physical matter that makes up only a single percent of all the "stuff" we have discovered make up those galaxies (dark matter and dark energy make up the other 99% of it). You really should watch that Krauss video.

That one species out of the billions that have existed in this planet's history is so self-righteously arrogant that they think this was all intentionally put here just for us simply blows me away, takes the breath from my lungs.

It is a fluke. It's clear that it's a fluke. This is the term used by men like Hawking and Krauss and Feynman and Einstein. We are not special. We are a cosmic accident, and subject to the same laws as the rest of the universe. And that is exactly what makes it so awe-inspiring.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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10-08-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 02:05 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It is a fluke. It's clear that it's a fluke. This is the term used by men like Hawking and Krauss and Feynman and Einstein. We are not special. We are a cosmic accident, and subject to the same laws as the rest of the universe. And that is exactly what makes it so awe-inspiring.

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10-08-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 01:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's all pretty passive agressive bullshit. It's not up to atheists to convince you of anything. It's totally 100% up to YOu to find the truth


I don't sit here waiting for some random atheists on a internet forum to convince me of atheism. Just like I'm hoping no one here is expecting me to convince them of theism.

If I was expecting to find convincing arguements, I would have gone a long time ago.
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10-08-2015, 02:28 PM
Rocks with bad intentions
(10-08-2015 02:27 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(10-08-2015 01:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's all pretty passive agressive bullshit. It's not up to atheists to convince you of anything. It's totally 100% up to YOu to find the truth


I don't sit here waiting for some random atheists on a internet forum to convince me of atheism. Just like I'm hoping no one here is expecting me to convince them of theism.

If I was expecting to find convincing arguements, I would have gone a long time ago.

Then why the fuck are you here again?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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