Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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01-10-2013, 01:24 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 11:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 08:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm open here. The Exodus may not have occured or have occured at a different time or been allegorical, etc. I'm responding to the post that "archaeology has found no evidence of the Exodus". Questions that come to mind:

*What evidence would we expect archaeology to find 3,500 years after nomadic tent dwellers pass through a shifting desert? What would be the geographic area we would expect to have been researched to make this argument from silence? The whole Sinai? Select samples?

*If we did find middens or garbage dumps, tools, etc. as evidence, what would we need to identify them as belonging to the Israelites? To mark them as part of another group?

Thanks.


The Bible claims that Moses left with 600,000 able bodied fighting men. So taking into account women, children, and older family members; you're looking at an estimated population of 2 million people. That would have been more than half the total population of Egypt at that time. Think about that, 2 million people wandering in the desert for 40 years and we haven't found anything? Nada, zilch, squat.






[Image: 7jw3b.jpeg]


Also, here is Edward T. Babinski laying the smack-down on Ron Wyatt (and his 'chariot wheel') almost five years ago.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...cy-dr.html

That video is taken from "The Bible Unearthed", a documentary about the book by  Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman  which I'm in the midst of reading and so far greatly liking. These are two fellas with some heavy duty credentials. I wouldn't want to meet either one of these guys in a dark alley with only a high school diploma.

The Edward Babinski link has the ship valve I posted or very close to it.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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01-10-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 03:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(30-09-2013 06:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Depending on where they are in relation to shore and depth, sea level rise.

How do you discern chariots, from definitely the chariots that the pharaoh's men rode in as they chased the jewish slaves?

(we can ignore for the moment the paucity of evidence that indicates any jews were ever enslaved by the Egyptians)
Because they are in the middle of the sea with only the biblical account providing an explanation for how they got there. The evidence for Hebrews in Egypt is recorded by historians as the various accounts of the Hyksos. This is affirmed by Josephus who lived 2000 years ago and was much closer to the event than we are. The way that history works is that we take the sometimes wildly variant accounts of events from a number of sources and historians interpret these varying accounts and come up with a most plausible scenario of what might have happened. There is all kinds of conjecture and debate about which of these debates to accept. So in the case of the Hyksos and the Hebrews, there are varying conjectures and theories as to whether they were not the same people. Was the biblical account of the Hebrews a distorted interpretation to favour the Hebrews, or was the accounts of the Hyksos a distorted interpretation to favour the Egyptians. Everybody will have their own theory depending on their bias and the axe they want to grind.

But to say that there is no evidence of a semitic people in Egypt during the 400 years prior to the end of the 15th dynasty which lines up with the timing of the exodus is just ridiculous. The history of the Hyksos clearly describes how the Hyksos were driven out of Egypt at about the time the biblical account describes the Exodus. I notice that you did not say that there is no evidence that a semitic people were driven from Egypt at about the time of the Exodus.

You took a step back and said there is no evidence that the jews were enslaved in Egypt.
The fact that there is no evidence of hebrew slavery in Egypt does not mean that it did not happen. The hittites were discarded as a true people because there was no archaelogical evidence to support the biblical account. Then loe and behold an amazing discover of evidence of the Hittites was found. The Ipuwer Papyrus gives an incredible account with many parallels of the ten plagues of Egypt.

It is a logical fallacy that there must be archaeological evidence to prove that an event from thousands of years ago occurred. First you have to prove the proposition that evidence should remain from all those long thousands of years. Such a proposition cannot be proven and is no more than an opinion. Who knows what amazing events described in the destroyed library of Alexandria never happened because that was the last record of those events.

For example, what evidence would you expect to see of the exodus. The Israelites took everything with them. Why should you imagine they left a trail of garbage along the way? The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus. This probably held true for clothing of all kinds of implements. So the notion that they were wandering through the wilderness leaving middens of garbage is erroneus. Even their food was miraculous manna falling from heaven.

Added to this is the fact as explained by Ron Wyatt that most archaelogists have been looking in the wrong place. When Ron started looking in the right place for the exodus he found rather a lot of evidence including the chariot wheels in the depths of the sea, the pillars erected by Solomon to mark the crossing. The rock drawings of the golden calf. The rock with the amazing crack in it which Moses struck to allow the water to flow out of it. The blackened peak of the mountain. Various altars which were erected, and boundary markers around the mountain to mark where the Israelites must not pass.

If these do not constitute evidence of the Exodus then I'm sorry, you cannot be convinced no matter what evidence is ever offered to be brought to an admission that the biblical accounts are true.

"The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus."

So, if it was such a "miraculous event" and a deity provided unworn shoes and manna from heaven why the hell didn't this deity provide MAPS?

This all powerful person comes up with a burning bush and ten commandments carved in stone but couldn't make a decent map or somehow give directions? If I'm ever lost in the nearby Eastern Oregon desert I'll be sure not to rely on your invisible sky person to help me.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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01-10-2013, 01:59 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 01:47 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 03:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Because they are in the middle of the sea with only the biblical account providing an explanation for how they got there. The evidence for Hebrews in Egypt is recorded by historians as the various accounts of the Hyksos. This is affirmed by Josephus who lived 2000 years ago and was much closer to the event than we are. The way that history works is that we take the sometimes wildly variant accounts of events from a number of sources and historians interpret these varying accounts and come up with a most plausible scenario of what might have happened. There is all kinds of conjecture and debate about which of these debates to accept. So in the case of the Hyksos and the Hebrews, there are varying conjectures and theories as to whether they were not the same people. Was the biblical account of the Hebrews a distorted interpretation to favour the Hebrews, or was the accounts of the Hyksos a distorted interpretation to favour the Egyptians. Everybody will have their own theory depending on their bias and the axe they want to grind.

But to say that there is no evidence of a semitic people in Egypt during the 400 years prior to the end of the 15th dynasty which lines up with the timing of the exodus is just ridiculous. The history of the Hyksos clearly describes how the Hyksos were driven out of Egypt at about the time the biblical account describes the Exodus. I notice that you did not say that there is no evidence that a semitic people were driven from Egypt at about the time of the Exodus.

You took a step back and said there is no evidence that the jews were enslaved in Egypt.
The fact that there is no evidence of hebrew slavery in Egypt does not mean that it did not happen. The hittites were discarded as a true people because there was no archaelogical evidence to support the biblical account. Then loe and behold an amazing discover of evidence of the Hittites was found. The Ipuwer Papyrus gives an incredible account with many parallels of the ten plagues of Egypt.

It is a logical fallacy that there must be archaeological evidence to prove that an event from thousands of years ago occurred. First you have to prove the proposition that evidence should remain from all those long thousands of years. Such a proposition cannot be proven and is no more than an opinion. Who knows what amazing events described in the destroyed library of Alexandria never happened because that was the last record of those events.

For example, what evidence would you expect to see of the exodus. The Israelites took everything with them. Why should you imagine they left a trail of garbage along the way? The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus. This probably held true for clothing of all kinds of implements. So the notion that they were wandering through the wilderness leaving middens of garbage is erroneus. Even their food was miraculous manna falling from heaven.

Added to this is the fact as explained by Ron Wyatt that most archaelogists have been looking in the wrong place. When Ron started looking in the right place for the exodus he found rather a lot of evidence including the chariot wheels in the depths of the sea, the pillars erected by Solomon to mark the crossing. The rock drawings of the golden calf. The rock with the amazing crack in it which Moses struck to allow the water to flow out of it. The blackened peak of the mountain. Various altars which were erected, and boundary markers around the mountain to mark where the Israelites must not pass.

If these do not constitute evidence of the Exodus then I'm sorry, you cannot be convinced no matter what evidence is ever offered to be brought to an admission that the biblical accounts are true.

"The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus."

So, if it was such a "miraculous event" and a deity provided unworn shoes and manna from heaven why the hell didn't this deity provide MAPS?

This all powerful person comes up with a burning bush and ten commandments carved in stone but couldn't make a decent map or somehow give directions? If I'm ever lost in the nearby Eastern Oregon desert I'll be sure not to rely on your invisible sky person to help me.

The Israelites didn't need a map:

*They had already been to the promised land (12 advance spies) who visited many parts of it for some weeks' duration

*Jesus guided them via a pillar of fire and cloud but ordained their wanderings

*The pillar of fire helped define god as a "visible" sky person Rolleyes
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01-10-2013, 02:00 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 11:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 08:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm open here. The Exodus may not have occured or have occured at a different time or been allegorical, etc. I'm responding to the post that "archaeology has found no evidence of the Exodus". Questions that come to mind:

*What evidence would we expect archaeology to find 3,500 years after nomadic tent dwellers pass through a shifting desert? What would be the geographic area we would expect to have been researched to make this argument from silence? The whole Sinai? Select samples?

*If we did find middens or garbage dumps, tools, etc. as evidence, what would we need to identify them as belonging to the Israelites? To mark them as part of another group?

Thanks.


The Bible claims that Moses left with 600,000 able bodied fighting men. So taking into account women, children, and older family members; you're looking at an estimated population of 2 million people. That would have been more than half the total population of Egypt at that time. Think about that, 2 million people wandering in the desert for 40 years and we haven't found anything? Nada, zilch, squat.






[Image: 7jw3b.jpeg]


Also, here is Edward T. Babinski laying the smack-down on Ron Wyatt (and his 'chariot wheel') almost five years ago.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...cy-dr.html

I apologize but it's hard to accept your continued argument from silence as I don't believe your response touches on these questions in any way:

*What evidence would we expect archaeology to find 3,500 years after nomadic tent dwellers pass through a shifting desert? What would be the geographic area we would expect to have been researched to make this argument from silence? The whole Sinai? Select samples?

*If we did find middens or garbage dumps, tools, etc. as evidence, what would we need to identify them as belonging to the Israelites? To mark them as part of another group?
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01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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01-10-2013, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2013 05:28 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 02:00 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 11:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The Bible claims that Moses left with 600,000 able bodied fighting men. So taking into account women, children, and older family members; you're looking at an estimated population of 2 million people. That would have been more than half the total population of Egypt at that time. Think about that, 2 million people wandering in the desert for 40 years and we haven't found anything? Nada, zilch, squat.






[Image: 7jw3b.jpeg]


Also, here is Edward T. Babinski laying the smack-down on Ron Wyatt (and his 'chariot wheel') almost five years ago.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...cy-dr.html

I apologize but it's hard to accept your continued argument from silence as I don't believe your response touches on these questions in any way:

*What evidence would we expect archaeology to find 3,500 years after nomadic tent dwellers pass through a shifting desert? What would be the geographic area we would expect to have been researched to make this argument from silence? The whole Sinai? Select samples?

*If we did find middens or garbage dumps, tools, etc. as evidence, what would we need to identify them as belonging to the Israelites? To mark them as part of another group?

Modern archaeology have traced small nomads going back to the third millennium BCE in that area. They have been identified by their particular type of pots and other items used by nomadic tribes. Yet nothing, no campsite no shard of pottery pointing to any Israelite of that period have been found. Nothing. And if there is 600,000 able bodied men wandering the desert (and that's not including women and children) you can bet your sweet corn bread that [i]something[i] would turn up. So, small nomadic traders have been identified yet almost a million people wondering the desert haven't.

It's myth.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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01-10-2013, 05:53 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
Quote:*What evidence would we expect archaeology to find 3,500 years after nomadic tent dwellers pass through a shifting desert? What would be the geographic area we would expect to have been researched to make this argument from silence? The whole Sinai? Select samples?

*If we did find middens or garbage dumps, tools, etc. as evidence, what would we need to identify them as belonging to the Israelites? To mark them as part of another group?

Okay, so now we have established that you know jack shit about modern archaeology. I suggest you leave the field to those who do.

Quote:Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn't want to hear about it.

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/704190/posts
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01-10-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 11:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: 7jw3b.jpeg]

Fun fact: using a very generous estimate of the distance between ~Suez and ~Jerusalem (800km) that amounts to about 50 metres per day. Not exactly a quick march.

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02-10-2013, 04:41 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(01-10-2013 01:47 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(01-10-2013 03:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Because they are in the middle of the sea with only the biblical account providing an explanation for how they got there. The evidence for Hebrews in Egypt is recorded by historians as the various accounts of the Hyksos. This is affirmed by Josephus who lived 2000 years ago and was much closer to the event than we are. The way that history works is that we take the sometimes wildly variant accounts of events from a number of sources and historians interpret these varying accounts and come up with a most plausible scenario of what might have happened. There is all kinds of conjecture and debate about which of these debates to accept. So in the case of the Hyksos and the Hebrews, there are varying conjectures and theories as to whether they were not the same people. Was the biblical account of the Hebrews a distorted interpretation to favour the Hebrews, or was the accounts of the Hyksos a distorted interpretation to favour the Egyptians. Everybody will have their own theory depending on their bias and the axe they want to grind.

But to say that there is no evidence of a semitic people in Egypt during the 400 years prior to the end of the 15th dynasty which lines up with the timing of the exodus is just ridiculous. The history of the Hyksos clearly describes how the Hyksos were driven out of Egypt at about the time the biblical account describes the Exodus. I notice that you did not say that there is no evidence that a semitic people were driven from Egypt at about the time of the Exodus.

You took a step back and said there is no evidence that the jews were enslaved in Egypt.
The fact that there is no evidence of hebrew slavery in Egypt does not mean that it did not happen. The hittites were discarded as a true people because there was no archaelogical evidence to support the biblical account. Then loe and behold an amazing discover of evidence of the Hittites was found. The Ipuwer Papyrus gives an incredible account with many parallels of the ten plagues of Egypt.

It is a logical fallacy that there must be archaeological evidence to prove that an event from thousands of years ago occurred. First you have to prove the proposition that evidence should remain from all those long thousands of years. Such a proposition cannot be proven and is no more than an opinion. Who knows what amazing events described in the destroyed library of Alexandria never happened because that was the last record of those events.

For example, what evidence would you expect to see of the exodus. The Israelites took everything with them. Why should you imagine they left a trail of garbage along the way? The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus. This probably held true for clothing of all kinds of implements. So the notion that they were wandering through the wilderness leaving middens of garbage is erroneus. Even their food was miraculous manna falling from heaven.

Added to this is the fact as explained by Ron Wyatt that most archaelogists have been looking in the wrong place. When Ron started looking in the right place for the exodus he found rather a lot of evidence including the chariot wheels in the depths of the sea, the pillars erected by Solomon to mark the crossing. The rock drawings of the golden calf. The rock with the amazing crack in it which Moses struck to allow the water to flow out of it. The blackened peak of the mountain. Various altars which were erected, and boundary markers around the mountain to mark where the Israelites must not pass.

If these do not constitute evidence of the Exodus then I'm sorry, you cannot be convinced no matter what evidence is ever offered to be brought to an admission that the biblical accounts are true.

"The exodus was a miraculous event. Shoes for example did not wear out in all the 40 years of the exodus."

So, if it was such a "miraculous event" and a deity provided unworn shoes and manna from heaven why the hell didn't this deity provide MAPS?

This all powerful person comes up with a burning bush and ten commandments carved in stone but couldn't make a decent map or somehow give directions? If I'm ever lost in the nearby Eastern Oregon desert I'll be sure not to rely on your invisible sky person to help me.
What makes you think they were lost. The pillar of cloud led them through the wilderness.
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02-10-2013, 05:41 AM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2013 10:16 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(02-10-2013 04:41 AM)excubitor Wrote:  What makes you think they were lost. The pillar of cloud led them through the wilderness.

excubitor you have to come to realize that the reason none of us take what you have to say seriously is because your answer to every question is simply 'magic'... Drinking Beverage

'Magic' answers all questions and none. You can posit magic as an answer to any question, but it doesn't explain any of them. That's the problem with magical answers is they seemingly explain everything while actually explaining nothing.



How does the sun rise and set? Magic!

What causes the tides? Magic!

What cures sickness and disease? Magic!

How does Santa deliver all those presents? Magic!

How did the snake in the Garden of Eden talk if it had no vocal chords? Magic!

How does the light in your refrigerator know when to turn off? Magic!

How come when you put an even number of socks in the dryer, an odd number comes out? Magic!

How did 2 million Israelites wander the desert for 40 years and leave no trace of their passage? Magic!

How did magic do all of these things? FUCKING MAGIC! Laughat

How does magic work? FUCK IF I KNOW, BUT DON'T QUESTION IT! Weeping

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