Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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03-10-2013, 03:51 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(02-10-2013 10:14 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 06:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  For forty freakin' years?

Well, sure. I already showed how the vast distance of 800km would, in 40 years, necessitate a cruel and grueling pace of... 50 metres per day. But let's be more realistic - they'd've taken the Sabbath off, right? So that's an even more exhausting and challenging 65 metres per day, allowing for the occasional holiday (though of course, most Jewish holidays wouldn't exist, since they commemorate events which hadn't happened yet).

On their magical indestructible shoes and inexhaustible divine manna, our Israelite horde spent about 60 seconds per day walking (assuming a leisurely 4 km/h!) in their net final direction. Such a rush they were in!
This is truly ridiculous and shows a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the scriptures. The Hebrews did not travel to Israel in a straight line. God forced them to wander for forty years in the wilderness. The reason and account is given in Numbers 32 the account is given of the spies going into the land and giving a frightening account of the people and the fortifications there. As a result the people of Israel refused to go in and take the land because of fear and they demanded to return to slavery in Egypt. This incurred God's most fierce anger.
Numbers 14:33 And your children shall wander [3] in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. 35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Joshua and Caleb alone survived that 40 year period and went into the land. The rest who came out of Egypt who were over 20 years old died in the wilderness and their children eventually went up and inherited the land.
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03-10-2013, 03:59 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is truly ridiculous and shows a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the scriptures. The Hebrews did not travel to Israel in a straight line. God forced them to wander for forty years in the wilderness. The reason and account is given in Numbers 32 the account is given of the spies going into the land and giving a frightening account of the people and the fortifications there. As a result the people of Israel refused to go in and take the land because of fear and they demanded to return to slavery in Egypt. This incurred God's most fierce anger.
Numbers 14:33 And your children shall wander [3] in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. 35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Joshua and Caleb alone survived that 40 year period and went into the land. The rest who came out of Egypt who were over 20 years old died in the wilderness and their children eventually went up and inherited the land.


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03-10-2013, 06:52 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is truly ridiculous and shows a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the scriptures.

You seem to be show a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the concept of an "average".

(not to mention gravity, but that's another story)

(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Hebrews did not travel to Israel in a straight line.

Indeed, the straight line distance is only about 500 km.

(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  God forced them to wander for forty years in the wilderness. Which The reason and account is given in Numbers 32 the account is given of the spies going into the land and giving a frightening account of the people and the fortifications there. As a result the people of Israel refused to go in and take the land because of fear and they demanded to return to slavery in Egypt. This incurred God's most fierce anger.
Numbers 14:33 And your children shall wander [3] in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. 35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Joshua and Caleb alone survived that 40 year period and went into the land. The rest who came out of Egypt who were over 20 years old died in the wilderness and their children eventually went up and inherited the land.

I know the story, but you don't seem to understand maths. The travelled a distance. This is the path length. They took a duration to do so. Therefore the one divided by the other gives a net velocity along that path.

The gist of which is that a huge amount of people were travelling very slowly. For those of us who use our brains, this would suggest that there ought to be evidence.

Which there's not. From beginning to end - nothing.

It didn't happen.

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03-10-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 06:52 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is truly ridiculous and shows a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the scriptures.

You seem to be show a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the concept of an "average".

(not to mention gravity, but that's another story)

(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Hebrews did not travel to Israel in a straight line.

Indeed, the straight line distance is only about 500 km.

(03-10-2013 03:51 AM)excubitor Wrote:  God forced them to wander for forty years in the wilderness. Which The reason and account is given in Numbers 32 the account is given of the spies going into the land and giving a frightening account of the people and the fortifications there. As a result the people of Israel refused to go in and take the land because of fear and they demanded to return to slavery in Egypt. This incurred God's most fierce anger.
Numbers 14:33 And your children shall wander [3] in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. 35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Joshua and Caleb alone survived that 40 year period and went into the land. The rest who came out of Egypt who were over 20 years old died in the wilderness and their children eventually went up and inherited the land.

I know the story, but you don't seem to understand maths. The travelled a distance. This is the path length. They took a duration to do so. Therefore the one divided by the other gives a net velocity along that path.

The gist of which is that a huge amount of people were travelling very slowly. For those of us who use our brains, this would suggest that there ought to be evidence.

Which there's not. From beginning to end - nothing.

It didn't happen.
Look mate. I'm sorry that you cannot understand what wandering means. It means you meander endlessly in endless circles. You could go a thousand miles an hour in circle and still not travel any significant distance in any particular direction. I really cannot believe anybody who can use a computer can be so thick. This is what happens when people resolutely argue against the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.
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03-10-2013, 07:13 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Look mate. I'm sorry that you cannot understand what wandering means. It means you meander endlessly in endless circles.

How much distance did they cover, then? How many times did they retrace their own steps?

But I guess they wouldn't have noticed if they were covering old ground, given that they apparently left absolutely nothing behind along the way...

(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You could go a thousand miles an hour in circle and still not travel any significant distance in any particular direction.

You and your old nemesis "math" again, I see.

The starting point and the ending point are physical locations on the planet. Therefore there is a distance between them. Therefore given time and displacement once may calculate velocity.

This is a net velocity.

(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I really cannot believe anybody who can use a computer can be so thick.

I can. You use a computer, no?

If you need help with grade school arithmetic, just ask.

(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is what happens when people resolutely argue against the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.

I seem to recall you saying "gravity is a scam". Funny that.

This is what happens when people resolutely argue for the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.

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03-10-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
You might want to check the dictionary on that one, excubitor:
"wandering present participle of wan·der (Verb)
Verb
Walk or move in a leisurely, casual, or aimless way.
Move slowly away from a fixed point or place: "please don't wander off again".""

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-10-2013, 08:42 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 06:52 AM)cjlr Wrote:  You seem to be show a shocking level of ignorance and contempt for the concept of an "average".

(not to mention gravity, but that's another story)


Indeed, the straight line distance is only about 500 km.


I know the story, but you don't seem to understand maths. The travelled a distance. This is the path length. They took a duration to do so. Therefore the one divided by the other gives a net velocity along that path.

The gist of which is that a huge amount of people were travelling very slowly. For those of us who use our brains, this would suggest that there ought to be evidence.

Which there's not. From beginning to end - nothing.

It didn't happen.
Look mate. I'm sorry that you cannot understand what wandering means. It means you meander endlessly in endless circles. You could go a thousand miles an hour in circle and still not travel any significant distance in any particular direction. I really cannot believe anybody who can use a computer can be so thick. This is what happens when people resolutely argue against the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.

Forty years. Forty years in a relatively small area. Forty years of living, dying, eating, shitting, making stuff, throwing stuff away, losing things, hunting, gathering, and not one single bit of physical evidence that they were even there.

Right. It didn't happen.

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03-10-2013, 09:31 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 08:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  Forty years. Forty years in a relatively small area. Forty years of living, dying, eating, shitting, making stuff, throwing stuff away, losing things, hunting, gathering, and not one single bit of physical evidence that they were even there.

Right. It didn't happen.



But, but, but, but.... but....


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03-10-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
Both Redford and Finkelstein are far more interested in the political realities of late 7th century BC Canaan than the mythological stuff which was written in much later.

Basically, c 626 BC Babylon successfully revolted from Assyria and began a process which would end the Assyrian empire at Carchemish c 605 BC. In order to fight the Babylonians in the east the Assyrians were forced to disengage in the west which left a power vacuum. The 26th (Saite) Dynasty ruling in Egypt as an Assyrian vassal managed to assert its independence and then allied itself with Assyria. It did not help, the Egyptians were crushed at Carchemish along with the Assyrians and Egypt resumed its long decline towards becoming a province of the Roman empire.

However, Finkelstein's point is that at this same time - and this is the only time in the entire first millennium when this is true - Egypt and Judah would have been rivals for the same territory. As the Assyrians withdrew from the area of the northern kingdom of Israel the Egyptians looked to reassert their traditional hegemony over Canaan which they had enjoyed under the New Kingdom. Meanwhile Judah, with some delusions of grandeur as a result of their flourishing economy under the Assyrian trade network AND suddenly finding Assyrian control weakened, looked to expand northwards to the richer agricultural lands there.

Even the OT tells the story of what happens. Necho's army marching north seems to have summoned "Josiah" to a meeting and, not liking what he heard, killed him. (2 Kings 29). The much later Book of Chronicles creates a battle for "Josiah" to die in somewhat more heroically but the Egyptians don't seem to know they won a battle that day!

In any case, there is no other point in the entire first millennium when Egypt and Judah were rivals. Even when the Hasmonean kingdom arises in the late 2d century - and which seems to be the time that this bible bullshit was edited to suit the needs of a "kingdom" - it was merely a regional power while Egypt was a third rate protectorate of the Romans who maintained the fiction of its independence for reasons of their own.

So, at what point in history would a story of slaves being helped by god to crush Egypt have been useful to the Judahites? Only when they were contemplating resisting Egypt. This is Finkelstein's point and the politics is the clincher. Judah spent the rest of the first millenium as an insignificant vassal state of (in order, Babylon, Persia, Alexander's Greeks, the Ptolemaic Greeks, the Seleucid Greeks,) then we get a brief 40 year period of independent monarchy which dissolved in dynastic squabbling before the Romans arrived to put the thing out of its misery.

BTW, golden calves were celebrated symbols in Canaan going back to the Middle Bronze Age. They have actually found an example in a pre-Philistine level at Ashkalon so it would have been a common motif among the Canaanites.
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03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 10:09 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Both Redford and Finkelstein are far more interested in the political realities of late 7th century BC Canaan than the mythological stuff which was written in much later.

Basically, c 626 BC Babylon successfully revolted from Assyria and began a process which would end the Assyrian empire at Carchemish c 605 BC. In order to fight the Babylonians in the east the Assyrians were forced to disengage in the west which left a power vacuum. The 26th (Saite) Dynasty ruling in Egypt as an Assyrian vassal managed to assert its independence and then allied itself with Assyria. It did not help, the Egyptians were crushed at Carchemish along with the Assyrians and Egypt resumed its long decline towards becoming a province of the Roman empire.

However, Finkelstein's point is that at this same time - and this is the only time in the entire first millennium when this is true - Egypt and Judah would have been rivals for the same territory. As the Assyrians withdrew from the area of the northern kingdom of Israel the Egyptians looked to reassert their traditional hegemony over Canaan which they had enjoyed under the New Kingdom. Meanwhile Judah, with some delusions of grandeur as a result of their flourishing economy under the Assyrian trade network AND suddenly finding Assyrian control weakened, looked to expand northwards to the richer agricultural lands there.

Even the OT tells the story of what happens. Necho's army marching north seems to have summoned "Josiah" to a meeting and, not liking what he heard, killed him. (2 Kings 29). The much later Book of Chronicles creates a battle for "Josiah" to die in somewhat more heroically but the Egyptians don't seem to know they won a battle that day!

In any case, there is no other point in the entire first millennium when Egypt and Judah were rivals. Even when the Hasmonean kingdom arises in the late 2d century - and which seems to be the time that this bible bullshit was edited to suit the needs of a "kingdom" - it was merely a regional power while Egypt was a third rate protectorate of the Romans who maintained the fiction of its independence for reasons of their own.

So, at what point in history would a story of slaves being helped by god to crush Egypt have been useful to the Judahites? Only when they were contemplating resisting Egypt. This is Finkelstein's point and the politics is the clincher. Judah spent the rest of the first millenium as an insignificant vassal state of (in order, Babylon, Persia, Alexander's Greeks, the Ptolemaic Greeks, the Seleucid Greeks,) then we get a brief 40 year period of independent monarchy which dissolved in dynastic squabbling before the Romans arrived to put the thing out of its misery.

BTW, golden calves were celebrated symbols in Canaan going back to the Middle Bronze Age. They have actually found an example in a pre-Philistine level at Ashkalon so it would have been a common motif among the Canaanites.

Yes. I'm getting to this part in the book. It seems the bible was written later than traditionally thought which doesn't surprise me in the least. My understanding is that Redford and Finkelstein are matching real historical events and dating biblical writing to the then need for biblical propaganda. Makes total sense.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

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