Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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04-10-2013, 04:39 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 08:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Look mate. I'm sorry that you cannot understand what wandering means. It means you meander endlessly in endless circles. You could go a thousand miles an hour in circle and still not travel any significant distance in any particular direction. I really cannot believe anybody who can use a computer can be so thick. This is what happens when people resolutely argue against the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.

Forty years. Forty years in a relatively small area. Forty years of living, dying, eating, shitting, making stuff, throwing stuff away, losing things, hunting, gathering, and not one single bit of physical evidence that they were even there.

Right. It didn't happen.
The Israelites did not make or dispose of anything which is why I pointed out the miraculous preservation of their clothes and footware throughout the 40 year period. They had no need to make anything because nothing wore out and because nothing wore out they had no need to make anything. The Israelites were commanded to defecate outside the camp and to bury their excrement. For those who understand Egyptian hygiene practices, this is a miracle in itself. The camp was kept moving regularly to avoid the accumulation of filth which might cause disease. Whether or not bones should survive all of these thousands of years is debateable and depends on the soil chemistry. Given that the camp was constantly moving the graves would be scattered all over the wilderness, not just in one place, so there would be no way of distinguishing the bones from those of bedouins or any other nomadic people.

The other issue is that nobody really knows where they were wandering or even where Mt. Sinai is. I agree with Ron Wyatt and dispute the traditional site. I even pointed out the amazing set of facts which add powerful evidence to the site discovered by Ron Wyatt. These amazing facts and evidences were completely ignored by you but and the rest here who just continue to parrot the line "There is no archaelogical evidence and therefore it did not happen" So if indeed the real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia then the archaeological have been looking in the wrong place for evidence of the peoples sojourning in the wilderness. Perhaps they might find the evidence they seem so desperate not to find if they look for it in Saudi Arabia.

Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.
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04-10-2013, 04:45 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 08:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  Forty years. Forty years in a relatively small area. Forty years of living, dying, eating, shitting, making stuff, throwing stuff away, losing things, hunting, gathering, and not one single bit of physical evidence that they were even there.

Right. It didn't happen.
The Israelites did not make or dispose of anything which is why I pointed out the miraculous preservation of their clothes and footware throughout the 40 year period. They had no need to make anything because nothing wore out and because nothing wore out they had no need to make anything. The Israelites were commanded to defecate outside the camp and to bury their excrement. For those who understand Egyptian hygiene practices, this is a miracle in itself. The camp was kept moving regularly to avoid the accumulation of filth which might cause disease. Whether or not bones should survive all of these thousands of years is debateable and depends on the soil chemistry. Given that the camp was constantly moving the graves would be scattered all over the wilderness, not just in one place, so there would be no way of distinguishing the bones from those of bedouins or any other nomadic people.

The other issue is that nobody really knows where they were wandering or even where Mt. Sinai is. I agree with Ron Wyatt and dispute the traditional site. I even pointed out the amazing set of facts which add powerful evidence to the site discovered by Ron Wyatt. These amazing facts and evidences were completely ignored by you but and the rest here who just continue to parrot the line "There is no archaelogical evidence and therefore it did not happen" So if indeed the real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia then the archaeological have been looking in the wrong place for evidence of the peoples sojourning in the wilderness. Perhaps they might find the evidence they seem so desperate not to find if they look for it in Saudi Arabia.

Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.

Oh, right. Magic again. Drinking Beverage

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04-10-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.


Wrong again. If there is no evidence, then there is no good reason to believe it actually happened. No evidence, no substantiation, no corroboration. That is the whole point of the argument from silence, that given what is claimed to have happened, we would expect to find X-Y-Z in the archaeological record. Not only do we not find X-Y-Z, we don't find A through W either; nothing is found. That is a strong argument from silence.


Now in light if this, you posit 'therefor magic'. Great. Now substantiate your claim that 'magic' explains what happened. What evidence do you have outside of your own assertions (remembering once again, that the Bible is the claim, not the evidence)? You are choosing to believe what you want to believe, it's as simple as that. The rest of us doubt the events happened as claimed in the Bible, and given the state of the evidence, they most likely did not happen at all.


Your belief is not logical or rational by any means, and you are damn right that we'll point that out and hammer it home if you choose to give voice to such an opinion. Don't like us pointing out just how absurd your beliefs are? Go to CatholicForums... Oh right, you got banned there... Laughat

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04-10-2013, 06:43 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 12:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Whether or not bones should survive all of these thousands of years is debateable and depends on the soil chemistry. Given that the camp was constantly moving the graves would be scattered all over the wilderness, not just in one place, so there would be no way of distinguishing the bones from those of bedouins or any other nomadic people.

Complete bullshit. The DESERT environment is precisely why there are so many Egyptian remains. Does he actually state what and where the "conditions" are, and what the differences are, or might be. No. Just makes up shit, and thinks it will fly. (Oh yeah, I forgot, the "holy ghost" gave him the skill to defend his crap faith). We're not talking about "wandering bands of Bedouins". We're talking about millions of people, and NOT ONE SET of bones. The rate of death of 2 million people is what ? 40 years, 2 million people, and the life expectancy of a human in the year, (generously) 1500 BCE, was 26 years. They ALL would have died in the years in the desert. NOT ONE corpse or set of bones, preserved in a sand environment ? Give me a fucking break.

As for the most idiotoc nonsense ever spoken : "nothing wore out" ...
Exodus 25 : 1 - 7. "Tell the Israelites to take up a collection ... these are the contributions you shall accept from them. Gold, silver, bronze, violet, purple and scarlet yarn, fine linen and goat hair, ram's skins dyed red, talash skins, acacia wood, oil for the light, oil for incense etc etc etc".

So. They were obviously dying and using yarns ... yet nothing was wearing out. Ok. Why dye and weave, if "nothing is wearing out" ? What the fuck happened to the millions of magic shoes, and clothes when they GOT to Canaan ? Did they all just START all of a sudden wearing out when a line in the sand was crossed ? Did not one of them think "oh, maybe I'll save my magic underwear, and sell it" ? And yet NOT ONE cultural historian (or even the Bible) says one word about 'nothing wearing out", one of the most GIGANTIC "miracles" of all time, in the history of this bullshit ? Where did they GET the "oils" ? The "clear oils of crushed olives"? Olives don't fucking grow in the desert. Did they start their own olive plantings, and wait for them to grow ? At the corner desert oil store ? If they had bullocks to sacrifice they had herds of animals. What happened to all their bones ?

The WHOLE DAMN thing ONLY makes sense in terms of a settled, highly developed, culture, retroactively creating a history for itself. Not a bunch of wandering "slaves".

In chapter 27, they were instructed to make things of bronze, for the altar of the holocausts. Where did the bronze come from ? The magic bronze store. Have you ever watched someone make bronze ? He obviously has no clue what that even means, or the artifacts it would leave. If they had to MAKE bronze objects, they had to have copper mines, and tin. Where did they find that, wandering ? So they had the huge capacity to create the huge hangings in the Court of the Dwelling, wandering in the desert, and leave no record anywhere ? Even while having magic clothing, and no need to and clothing making skills, they made "glorious" vestments for Aaron "tunics and sashes bla bla bla (Exodus 28:40). In chapter 35, there is "call for artisans". Why in hell would they even HAVE artisans, if "nothing ever wore out" ?
Where are the remains of the herds of the hundreds of thousands of animals in the herds in Leviticus 1 ? The collections of birds (Leviticus 14) ? Where did they get collections of birds on the desert ? Why did they have flour (Leviticus 2), if they were miraculously fed ? Were the "flocks" also miraculously fed ?

No. It's all complete crap. Actually read all the purported very skilled things they purportedly did, "wandering". No nomadic culture on this planet EVER did any of these things, weavings of gold. Sorry. All just made up.

In Numbers 1, there is a census. The tribes described as having "ancestral lineages" were LAND BASED, LOCAL referenced families .... oops.... but they haven't gotten to their land to reference the tribe TO yet. In Numbers 33, there is a specific record of the route. Yet NOT one piece of any evidence in any of those locations.

There is NO Biblical scholar that EVER once said "nothing wore out ... bla bla bla'' Not one. Even his cult never said anything THAT stupid. Just a measure of just how much complete crap a human brain is capable of accepting in it's NEED to make sense of complete bullshit nonsense.

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04-10-2013, 07:17 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Israelites did not make or dispose of anything which is why I pointed out the miraculous preservation of their clothes and footware throughout the 40 year period.

Yer a fucking poopyhead. Tongue

I have one over-arching theological complaint - god.

Theists want to proclaim that god can do anything, it follows to reason - as much as anything can, in theology - that "evidence for god" is both ludicrous and unnecessary. Book says "I Am that I am," not god is, therefore I am. In terms of theology, this reduces to -

I am the evidence for god.

The only reason I can figure that theists refer to these supposed "concrete examples" is that they are weak in their faith. They need other people to share in their delusions.

And yes, I mean delusion. The gospel that does not shame me is acceptance of the fact that neither you - nor anyone - can love my Gwynnies like I love my Gwynnies.

There's faith. Fuck death. I walk through the valley without fear in the shadow of life - which would eat me. Big Grin

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04-10-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Israelites did not make or dispose of anything which is why I pointed out the miraculous preservation of their clothes and footware throughout the 40 year period. They had no need to make anything because nothing wore out and because nothing wore out they had no need to make anything.

Anything? Not one person ever forgot anything? Not one person ever broke anything? Not one person ever left behind anything?

Thousands upon thousands of people were born during those 40 years, no? Where did their clothes and goods come from?

(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Israelites were commanded to defecate outside the camp and to bury their excrement.

Ah! I guess excrement doesn't count as part of anything.

You know that millions of people camped in the same vicinity for months and burying all the concomitant shit would, in fact, constitute evidence? You realize this would entail several litres of waste per person per day?

You can double down on insanity by claiming "magic food means no bodily wastes". I'm actually quite surpised you didn't.

(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Whether or not bones should survive all of these thousands of years is debateable and depends on the soil chemistry.

I think you'll find bodies buried in sand tend to last pretty well. Natural mummification would occur in a large percentage of cases.

(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Given that the camp was constantly moving the graves would be scattered all over the wilderness, not just in one place, so there would be no way of distinguishing the bones from those of bedouins or any other nomadic people.

Except by everything they were wearing and carrying and were buried with. Or did they strip the bodies before burying them? And the numbers, mind. There's be hundreds of thousands of them.

If we actually found one of the millions of corpses apparently scattered as widely as possible (hint: that we haven't suggests they are not, in fact, there) then it would be identifiable through DNA, through cultural artifacts (unless, as mentioned, they were buried nude - not typical Israelite practice!), through the GI tract contents (magic food!), through the conditions of the burial.

(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The other issue is that nobody really knows where they were wandering or even where Mt. Sinai is. I agree with Ron Wyatt and dispute the traditional site. I even pointed out the amazing set of facts which add powerful evidence to the site discovered by Ron Wyatt. These amazing facts and evidences were completely ignored by you but and the rest here who just continue to parrot the line "There is no archaelogical evidence and therefore it did not happen" So if indeed the real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia then the archaeological have been looking in the wrong place for evidence of the peoples sojourning in the wilderness. Perhaps they might find the evidence they seem so desperate not to find if they look for it in Saudi Arabia.

In other words:
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04-10-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.

Ok, you need to be explained what the argument from silence fallacy is, and what it isn't.

Example...

You open the door of a room which is in complete darkness and you call out "Hey, is anybody in here? " . If you conclude that there is nobody in the room because you didn't get an answer, you are making an argument from silence. And it is a fallacy because somebody can be in the room but chose not to answer.

On the other hand if you turn on the light in the room and look around and not see anybody and then conclude there is nobody in the room then that is not an argument from silence, that is a fucking argument from evidence and that is not a fallacy.

In the case of exodus , not finding any evidence of it is perhaps not 100% conclusive proof that it didn't happen , but the default position is: if there is no evidence that it happened - it fuckin' didn't happen.

But, if you point to the bible as a proof that it did happen, that IS a fallacy.
And it's called argument from authority .

And that shit doesn't fly here.

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04-10-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 08:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  Forty years. Forty years in a relatively small area. Forty years of living, dying, eating, shitting, making stuff, throwing stuff away, losing things, hunting, gathering, and not one single bit of physical evidence that they were even there.

Right. It didn't happen.
The Israelites did not make or dispose of anything which is why I pointed out the miraculous preservation of their clothes and footware throughout the 40 year period. They had no need to make anything because nothing wore out and because nothing wore out they had no need to make anything. The Israelites were commanded to defecate outside the camp and to bury their excrement. For those who understand Egyptian hygiene practices, this is a miracle in itself. The camp was kept moving regularly to avoid the accumulation of filth which might cause disease. Whether or not bones should survive all of these thousands of years is debateable and depends on the soil chemistry. Given that the camp was constantly moving the graves would be scattered all over the wilderness, not just in one place, so there would be no way of distinguishing the bones from those of bedouins or any other nomadic people.

The other issue is that nobody really knows where they were wandering or even where Mt. Sinai is. I agree with Ron Wyatt and dispute the traditional site. I even pointed out the amazing set of facts which add powerful evidence to the site discovered by Ron Wyatt. These amazing facts and evidences were completely ignored by you but and the rest here who just continue to parrot the line "There is no archaelogical evidence and therefore it did not happen" So if indeed the real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia then the archaeological have been looking in the wrong place for evidence of the peoples sojourning in the wilderness. Perhaps they might find the evidence they seem so desperate not to find if they look for it in Saudi Arabia.

Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.

Well, hell, now it all makes sense...it's a miracle.

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04-10-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(03-10-2013 07:08 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is what happens when people resolutely argue against for the scriptures, they start reeling out absurdities.
Fixed that for ya. Thumbsup

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04-10-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 05:45 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 04:39 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Saying that something did not happen because there is no archaeological evidence for it is an argument from silence. It proves nothing and disproves nothing.


Wrong again. If there is no evidence, then there is no good reason to believe it actually happened. No evidence, no substantiation, no corroboration. That is the whole point of the argument from silence, that given what is claimed to have happened, we would expect to find X-Y-Z in the archaeological record. Not only do we not find X-Y-Z, we don't find A through W either; nothing is found. That is a strong argument from silence.


Now in light if this, you posit 'therefor magic'. Great. Now substantiate your claim that 'magic' explains what happened. What evidence do you have outside of your own assertions (remembering once again, that the Bible is the claim, not the evidence)? You are choosing to believe what you want to believe, it's as simple as that. The rest of us doubt the events happened as claimed in the Bible, and given the state of the evidence, they most likely did not happen at all.


Your belief is not logical or rational by any means, and you are damn right that we'll point that out and hammer it home if you choose to give voice to such an opinion. Don't like us pointing out just how absurd your beliefs are? Go to CatholicForums... Oh right, you got banned there... Laughat
If I could Like this twice, I would. Smile That reply would work well for many points from theists.

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