Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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07-10-2013, 01:07 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 12:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yep.

Either it didn't happen (hint: it didn't happen) or else the miracle was the fact that nobody else on the planet noticed such a stunning aberration.
Yep, this would be observable to anyone on the sun-ward side of the globe. Good call.

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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07-10-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
Quote:Miracles which you too have denied because of the hardness of your disbelieving heart.

It's called "rationality" - try it some time.
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07-10-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(04-10-2013 07:21 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 10:08 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Ok, you need to be explained what the argument from silence fallacy is, and what it isn't.

Example...

You open the door of a room which is in complete darkness and you call out "Hey, is anybody in here? " . If you conclude that there is nobody in the room because you didn't get an answer, you are making an argument from silence. And it is a fallacy because somebody can be in the room but chose not to answer.

On the other hand if you turn on the light in the room and look around and not see anybody and then conclude there is nobody in the room then that is not an argument from silence, that is a fucking argument from evidence and that is not a fallacy.

In the case of exodus , not finding any evidence of it is perhaps not 100% conclusive proof that it didn't happen , but the default position is: if there is no evidence that it happened - it fuckin' didn't happen.

But, if you point to the bible as a proof that it did happen, that IS a fallacy.
And it's called argument from authority .

And that shit doesn't fly here.
The analogy is ridiculous. More likely the analogy is.
Your friend tells you that you can find a person in a certain room in a certain house.
So you go to the house and open the door of a room which is in complete darkness and you call out "Hey, is anybody in here? " . The fact that nobody answers and even when you switch on the light you cannot see anybody there and the room is empty of furniture you therefore conclude that the person was never in the room because there is no evidence that he was ever in the room.

Of course this is an absurd conclusion to come to. The lack of physical evidence of his presence remaining in the room is inconsequential compared to the testimony of your friend that he was there at some time in the past.

So we see from this demonstration that the lack of physical evidence proves absolutely nothing.
Again, your logic is completely broken , and you are "moving the goal posts" as you go.

In your flawed analogy first you state that your friend tells you that the person you are looking for IS there , but in the end you change your friends testimony to: he WAS there.
Correct conclusion is , when you look and don't find the person in question in the place your friend told you to look , your friend is not telling the truth. You don't get to change yours friends testimony to "he WAS there", in order to make his testimony true.

If your friend tells you that the person WAS there, but you don't find any evidence that this is so, and the common sense and the experience from similar events tells you that there should be evidence , you have to discard your friends testimony as false.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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07-10-2013, 06:13 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 11:54 AM)natachan Wrote:  As to Fatima, a few weeks ago we were discussing the sun and the temperature and energy given off by them (we were on the topic of radiation and thermodynamics, and someone asked) and the topic of blindness and retina damage were discussed. Several of the accounts you have put forth sound EXACTLY like the sort of hallucinations and damage that we covered while speaking of this topic. Now, I find this much more likely than the idea that the earth suddenly stopped in its orbit and whizzed through the cosmos in order to make the sun dance in this way, throwing everyone and everything off the surface and destroying everything without anyone outside Fatima noticing.
What he said is actually far more ridiculous. He says the sun, which is thousands of times more massive, made huge leaps and turns to make it dance in this way. Cos' hee'z kraaaZay!Hobo

*gets out physics book and retrieves formula for inertia and rotational motion. Looks in table for mass of sun and mass of earth*

No.
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08-10-2013, 03:47 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 03:55 AM by excubitor.)
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 05:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 04:50 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Gravity itself defies the laws of thermodynamics. Here is this endless energy which causes objects to fall inexorably towards the earth. It does not matter whether it is an enormous object or a light object they both fall at the same speed. Unlike any energy known to man, gravity cannot be shielded in any way. It cannot be increased or decreased. It never tires. Objects keep falling 9.8 m/s2 no less no more for hundreds and thousands of years . Where does all this incredible energy come from? The laws of Thermodynamics say that energy must be transformed. It cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore if gravity is a natural force then where is the energy from which it is transformed? Why is that energy never depleted? The earth is like a perpetual motion machine. Gravity therefore has all the hallmarks of a supernatural force caused directly by God. It is a daily miracle which occurs right under our nose every day.

The fact is, that scientists have no clue how gravity is generated. None at all. They think that because they can measure gravity and come up with a formula that describes it that therefore they understand it. But the truth is they know NOTHING about it. They have NO EVIDENCE that the mass of an object causes an object to fall towards it.

Now what if the entire truth of the matter is that gravity is not a physical force at all, but is a supernatural force that causes objects to fall to the earth at 9.8 m/s2. How will science ever come to this knowledge? It never will, because it cannot, because the central tenet of science is that nothing exists which does not have a natural cause. The basic tenet of science is that nothing supernatural or paranormal exists. So if indeed the truth is that miracles and supernatural events explain much of what we see, including creation, gravity, the motion of the planets and stars and the moon, the birth of a human child, and any number of other wonders, SCIENCE WILL NEVER discover it.

The result is that when science is faced with stupendous observations which defy the intellect, they have no recourse to a supernatural God, and so must resort to the most outlandish and absurd theories that make a mockery of all common sense.

The latest theory from Dawkins when faced with the Anthropic principle is the universe in which we are is only one of billions of universes a bubble foam of universes and we are just in one bubble and all the different bubbles in the foam have different fundamental constants and different laws and the vast majority of the bubbles have their knobs tuned into different places and do not give rise to the conditions which make evolution possible. There is only a tiny minority of these universes in which the conditions make evolution possible.

Can you believe this stuff? You think I am lying about this don't you, to discredit Dawkins. Hardly. Certainly not.

I typed this out from a video of him and then got sick of typing but he is talking about universes giving birth to baby universes and a darwinian tree of evolving universes so that in the billions upon billions of universes there should be no surprise that one of the babies of the billions of baby universes has the astronomically impossible odds of being anthropic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CexcmggApr4

You must be kidding. You reckon I believe in a fairy tale. This takes fairy tales to the utter extreme of absurdity.

But that is what science does to those who refuse to acknowledge the supernatural power of God in the creation. They get forced bit by bit into the most ludicrous theories which are so bizarre as to totally defy the imaginations that any "educated" person could be convinced to give enough credibility to repeat the fanciful nonsense.

Well Mr. Dawkins. You and your followers are forever blowing bubbles. Your theories will disappear like the foam on the sea shore which evaporates in the heat of the early morning sun. Poor deluded people. Pitiful and pathetic.


And Dr. Dawkins is explaining what some physicists make of the anthropic principle.
Hey I get it. You are embarrassed. Dawkins is the hero of the atheists and here he is uttering something so completely ridiculous moronic, childish and outlandish as to defy all belief that an apparently educated man could give this rubbish any credibility at all.

So you have to kind of back away from Dawkins thinking "We have a live one here" and make a sheepish and whimpering apology for the fallen hero "Not all physicists think this". Really, one would hope not. But the fact that some physicists (and not that too few I might add) think this way is a national disgrace and should result in every one of them having their funding cut, their chalk and blackboards confiscated and their sorry asses run out of town.

You mock us as having the God of the gaps. I happily resort to a miraculous and supernatural creator God when stupendous and incredible things are observed that defy natural explanation.

But what do you lads have when you face something like this, what do you have to fill in the gap?
Dawkins tells you. FOAM.

That's it.
So I will pit my OmniPotent God against your FOAM any day of the week.
Have a cry little atheists. Maybe you got some stingy soapy foam in your eyes. Poor things. Go and watch a Dawkins video to cheer you up and Dawkins can coo and blow some bubbles to make you feel better. Aww diddums.
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08-10-2013, 03:54 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 03:47 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(07-10-2013 05:23 AM)Chas Wrote:  And Dr. Dawkins is explaining what some physicists make of the anthropic principle.
Hey I get it. You are embarrassed. Dawkins is the hero of the atheists and here he is uttering something so completely ridiculous moronic, childish and outlandish as to defy all belief that an apparently educated man could give this rubbish any credibility at all.

So you have to kind of back away from Dawkins thinking "We have a live one here" and make a sheepish and whimpering apology for the fallen hero "Not all physicists think this". Really, one would hope not. But the fact that some physicists (and not that too few I might add) think this way is a national disgrace and should result in every one of them having their funding cut, their chalk and blackboards confiscated and their sorry asses run out of town.

You mock us as having the God of the gaps. I happily resort to a miraculous and supernatural creator God when stupendous and incredible things are observed that defy natural explanation.

But what do you lads have when you face something like this, what do you have to fill in the gap?
Dawkins tells you. FOAM.

That's it.
So I will pit my OmniPotent God against your foFOAM am any day of the week.
Have a cry little atheists. Maybe you got some stingy soapy foam in your eyes. Poor things. You need bubbles to explain the foamy multiverse. Pathetic.

No, you don't 'get it', and I am not embarrassed.

You can't seem to understand the difference between hypotheses and facts, or between knowledge and speculation.

I pity you. You are an embarrassment to human thought and human dignity.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-10-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 11:54 AM)natachan Wrote:  
Quote:Unlike any energy known to man, gravity cannot be shielded in any way. It cannot be increased or decreased. It never tires.

Gravitational potential energy CAN be increased or decreased. It's actually a rather interesting potential energy curve. And like others have said, 9.8 is not the exact measurement, it's only applicable at sea level. If you are higher up the acceleration is less. If you drop a quarter from chest height while standing on the top of mount Everest it will fall slower than if you did the same thing while in Bourbon Street in New Orleans. Isn't it awesome? There's also the trade off between velocity and potential energy, and mass and potential energy, and distance from center of mass and gravitational potential energy. It really is REALLY cool, but it would take a while and I have no talent for teaching.
So the force of gravity diminishes the further away from the core of the earth we get. No kidding. Just as well we have a genius here to explain basic stuff like that to us.

(07-10-2013 11:54 AM)natachan Wrote:  As to Fatima, a few weeks ago we were discussing the sun and the temperature and energy given off by them (we were on the topic of radiation and thermodynamics, and someone asked) and the topic of blindness and retina damage were discussed. Several of the accounts you have put forth sound EXACTLY like the sort of hallucinations and damage that we covered while speaking of this topic. Now, I find this much more likely than the idea that the earth suddenly stopped in its orbit and whizzed through the cosmos in order to make the sun dance in this way, throwing everyone and everything off the surface and destroying everything without anyone outside Fatima noticing.
Like I said. Is anything impossible to God? If he wants the sun to dance at Fatima and nowhere else in the world then he is not bound by any physical circumstance or physical reality. He is beyond time and space. He created the fabric of the physical realm, he can make whatever reality he wants, when he wants and where he wants. You cannot gainsay God who is over all things small and great.

You might choose the word hallucination in order to disparage. I choose the word vision.
Can even a massive distribution of hallucinogenic drugs could not cause a mass hallucination like this with all of the people seeing similar things. You can it a hallucination if you want, but even so, it was a miraculous power which caused it as nothing of this world can cause a mass hallucination like that to occur simultaneously to tens of thousands of people. Also the people were not hallucinating when they heard the accounts of the shepherd children and believed their accounts that a miracle would occur at that exact time. How could a mass hallucination be orchestrated at the same time as a mass belief in the ramblings of goat herding shepherd children. It is an inescapable fact no matter how much you hate to admit it that this was a stupendous paranormal event. The explanations I have heard here from atheists do not explain what mechanism caused all those people to hallucinated in tandem.
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08-10-2013, 04:38 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  Cos' hee'z kraaaZay!Hobo
That's actually funny. I might use that myself someday.

(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
excubitor Wrote:The fact is, that scientists have no clue how gravity is generated. None at all.
Actually, science has proven that forces derive from the exchange of force particles called bosons. The electromagnetic force has photons (detected and verified).
Electromagnetic force is a completely different thing to gravity.

(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  The strong nuclear force has gluons (detected and verified). The weak nuclear force has W and Z particles (detected and verified). The once theoretical Higg's boson, responsible for mass and inertia has been detected and is in the process of being verified. It is only a matter of time before the graviton (responsible for gravity) is discovered, pushing back the receding horizon of ignorance that is religion once more.
Higg's boson has not been found. This is an utter lie to justify the expenditure of the equivalent of the GDP of a small European country on the latter day Tower of Babel called the Large Hadron Collider.
You have just conceded that the source of Gravity has never been detected and is merely a theoretical construct to explain away the fact that no particle or wave has ever been detected that can account for it. It is only a matter of time before the graviton is discovered. Really. Did you know that no device has ever detected the rotation of the earth. Not ever, not even after 400 years of preaching that the earth is rotating. Yet you believe that. You guys just believe what you like, without evidence and have faith that one day the mysterious particle will be discovered.

That's right. You are men of faith just as much as I am. You place your faith in science to explain the universe to you, whereas I place my faith in the living Creator God.

(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  
excubitor Wrote:The fact that the universe can spin around us in 24 hours is a perpetual miracle.
Thanks for the topper on your Xian tree of insanity. The farthest galaxies away are at a distance of appx. 13 billion light years giving them an orbital circumference of 81.64 billion light years. To make one 24 hour circuit these galaxies would have to travel just a tad bit over the speed of light (3.4016 billion light years per hour). The gross violation of known physical laws brings the probability of Geo-centrism to precisely zero (0). Your dependence on "miracles" to make your theories work out is exactly hat makes them weak.
There is no evidence that the earth is 81.64 billion years across. I believe that it is very much smaller, however in any event even if the universe is that large and even if the theories of physics are correct, the theory of General Relativity teaches that there is no absolute motion in the universe and that all motion is relative.
Here is the quote from Einstein to confirm this.
Albert Einstein
"Can we formulate physical laws so that they are valid for all coordinate systems, not only those moving uniformly, but also those moving quite arbitrarily, relative to each other? The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either coordinate system could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: “The sun is at rest and the earth moves, “or “the sun moves and the earth is at rest,” would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different coordinate systems. Could we build a real relativistic physics valid in all coordinate systems; a physics in which there would be no place for absolute, but only for relative motion? This is indeed possible” The Evolution of Physics Albert Einstein and Leopold Infeld.

What Einstein is saying is that under the tenets of GR it is indeed possible to create a physical model which has the earth at rest and the universe rotating around it. So if it is possible to build such a model why don't they, the physicists, to prove the point of Einstein. The reason they do not is because philosophically they are opposed to the concept of an earth at rest and a rotating universe. What he is also saying is that the there is no relative difference between the relative motion between a particular location on earth and a distant star.

For an interesting article on this subject I recommend this http://veritas-catholic.blogspot.com.au/...hen-m.html
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08-10-2013, 04:46 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(07-10-2013 01:03 PM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote:  The gross violation of known physical laws brings the probability of Geo-centrism to precisely zero (0). Your dependence on "miracles" to make your theories work out is exactly hat makes them weak.
I am happy to accept physical forces as explanations for wonderful things like the motion of the planets if they are proved or at least passingly plausible. In fact the ones put forward by physicists are neither proved not plausible, therefore I am not at all flustered to have to depend on miracles to explain these gaps. There will always be gaps in our knowledge. Some are so large that physicists invent a universe made up of 95% dark matter to fill them. God however fills every gap whether it be big or small. God is in everything which is not a gap also, because his sustaining power is omnipotent and omnipresent. If God lifted his finger for a microsecond from the sustainment of the universe it would instantly vanish. He spoke it into existence and he could speak it out of existence just as easily. You have no concept of the power of God, none at all.
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08-10-2013, 04:58 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2013 05:01 AM by excubitor.)
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 03:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 03:47 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Hey I get it. You are embarrassed. Dawkins is the hero of the atheists and here he is uttering something so completely ridiculous moronic, childish and outlandish as to defy all belief that an apparently educated man could give this rubbish any credibility at all.

So you have to kind of back away from Dawkins thinking "We have a live one here" and make a sheepish and whimpering apology for the fallen hero "Not all physicists think this". Really, one would hope not. But the fact that some physicists (and not that too few I might add) think this way is a national disgrace and should result in every one of them having their funding cut, their chalk and blackboards confiscated and their sorry asses run out of town.

You mock us as having the God of the gaps. I happily resort to a miraculous and supernatural creator God when stupendous and incredible things are observed that defy natural explanation.

But what do you lads have when you face something like this, what do you have to fill in the gap?
Dawkins tells you. FOAM.

That's it.
So I will pit my OmniPotent God against your foFOAM am any day of the week.
Have a cry little atheists. Maybe you got some stingy soapy foam in your eyes. Poor things. You need bubbles to explain the foamy multiverse. Pathetic.

No, you don't 'get it', and I am not embarrassed.

You can't seem to understand the difference between hypotheses and facts, or between knowledge and speculation.

I pity you. You are an embarrassment to human thought and human dignity.
You don't seem to understand the difference between hypotheses and fantasies, or between speculation and bath time.

Got a rubber duck there to play in the tub with? Got some soap there to lather up and make some foam? Better still how about some bubble bath mixture to really get the creative thought processes flowing? Just look at those little bubbles all foaming up. Look at that tiny little bubble there, that is like our universe. Look. How wonderful. A man in the bath with all his thought and human dignity at work.

How wonderful these frothy meditations, not only is man now just one ape amongst many apes, and our earth just one planet among all the planets, and our sun just one star amongst all the stars. Now OUR ENTIRE UNIVERSE is just one bubble in a froth of foaming universes in the jacuzzi of the multiverse. Give me a break. This is not speculation, this is not even daydreaming, this is an utter disgrace to human thought and dignity. No amount of soaking in the tub is going to clean this utterly crazy myth away.

Pull out the plug and start again while you have some dignity left. What a disgrace. What a sham.
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