Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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08-10-2013, 02:22 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 11:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 04:58 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Pull out the plug and start again while you have some dignity left. What a disgrace. What a sham.

It really really is difficult for some kiddies when they're told the Easter bunny doesn't really exist.
Some people NEED to feel special. ("holier than thou"). It's a measure of their insecurity.
As David McCullough, Jr. said last Spring, "You're not special".

I'm sorry you feel that way, because people are special, and they are capable of special creative, expressive and redemptive acts. There's nothing wrong, for example, with telling a child they are special and beloved of god.
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08-10-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 02:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 11:31 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It really really is difficult for some kiddies when they're told the Easter bunny doesn't really exist.
Some people NEED to feel special. ("holier than thou"). It's a measure of their insecurity.
As David McCullough, Jr. said last Spring, "You're not special".

I'm sorry you feel that way, because people are special, and they are capable of special creative, expressive and redemptive acts. There's nothing wrong, for example, with telling a child they are special and beloved of god.

Spare me the emotional bull. Every person is special on the human level. They are not "special" in the cosmological sense. I realize making distinctions and dealing with the subtle details is difficult for you, but do try, once in a while. Weeping

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-10-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 04:07 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Like I said. Is anything impossible to God? If he wants the sun to dance at Fatima and nowhere else in the world then he is not bound by any physical circumstance or physical reality. He is beyond time and space. He created the fabric of the physical realm, he can make whatever reality he wants, when he wants and where he wants. You cannot gainsay God who is over all things small and great.

You might choose the word hallucination in order to disparage. I choose the word vision.
Can even a massive distribution of hallucinogenic drugs could not cause a mass hallucination like this with all of the people seeing similar things. You can it a hallucination if you want, but even so, it was a miraculous power which caused it as nothing of this world can cause a mass hallucination like that to occur simultaneously to tens of thousands of people. Also the people were not hallucinating when they heard the accounts of the shepherd children and believed their accounts that a miracle would occur at that exact time. How could a mass hallucination be orchestrated at the same time as a mass belief in the ramblings of goat herding shepherd children. It is an inescapable fact no matter how much you hate to admit it that this was a stupendous paranormal event. The explanations I have heard here from atheists do not explain what mechanism caused all those people to hallucinated in tandem.

So, let's say for the sake of argument that the sun actually danced around from our earthly perspective. And that despite comprising 99.86% of our solar system, Earth's orbit was somehow not disrupted, nor was this event felt or even noticed outside of this single community.
At what point would such an extraordinary event have to be the work of your god? Yours is merely one of thousands that this miracle could be attributed to. If you were born Hindu, you'd probably be carrying on about Surya instead. Hey, maybe it was Ra trying to prove that he's still around.


Or perhaps they're trying to build greater interest for their apparition gathering next week.



(Oh, ...Dawkins is a biologist, not a physicist.)

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09-10-2013, 04:59 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 06:30 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 04:07 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Like I said. Is anything impossible to God? If he wants the sun to dance at Fatima and nowhere else in the world then he is not bound by any physical circumstance or physical reality. He is beyond time and space. He created the fabric of the physical realm, he can make whatever reality he wants, when he wants and where he wants. You cannot gainsay God who is over all things small and great.

You might choose the word hallucination in order to disparage. I choose the word vision.
Can even a massive distribution of hallucinogenic drugs could not cause a mass hallucination like this with all of the people seeing similar things. You can it a hallucination if you want, but even so, it was a miraculous power which caused it as nothing of this world can cause a mass hallucination like that to occur simultaneously to tens of thousands of people. Also the people were not hallucinating when they heard the accounts of the shepherd children and believed their accounts that a miracle would occur at that exact time. How could a mass hallucination be orchestrated at the same time as a mass belief in the ramblings of goat herding shepherd children. It is an inescapable fact no matter how much you hate to admit it that this was a stupendous paranormal event. The explanations I have heard here from atheists do not explain what mechanism caused all those people to hallucinated in tandem.

So, let's say for the sake of argument that the sun actually danced around from our earthly perspective. And that despite comprising 99.86% of our solar system, Earth's orbit was somehow not disrupted, nor was this event felt or even noticed outside of this single community.
At what point would such an extraordinary event have to be the work of your god? Yours is merely one of thousands that this miracle could be attributed to. If you were born Hindu, you'd probably be carrying on about Surya instead. Hey, maybe it was Ra trying to prove that he's still around.


Or perhaps they're trying to build greater interest for their apparition gathering next week.



(Oh, ...Dawkins is a biologist, not a physicist.)
Quite obviously because the shepherd children attested that they spoke to Our Lady of Fatima. Three secrets were entrusted to Lucia. Here is one of them.
"I have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."[20]

Obviously this is a Christian message given to a Christian girl in a Christian nation. The message is extremely Catholic in nature. Our Lady of Fatima revealed to the children the place and time of the miraculous event which was revealed to the assembled people. This miracle was not given to the Hindu, the followers of Ra, Orthodox, Protestants or the Muslim. It was given only to the Catholic. As are the vast majority of miracles from the Catholic church. The miracles of the Catholic church are stupendous and the miracles of the protestant, hindu, muslim and Jew are virtually non-existent.

"Acts 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands."

"Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe"

The fact that these are Catholic miracles and no other religion can demonstrate the signs and wonders of the apostolic church is one proof among many that the Catholic faith is the one true religion and all the rest are false.
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09-10-2013, 05:19 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(09-10-2013 04:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(08-10-2013 06:30 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  So, let's say for the sake of argument that the sun actually danced around from our earthly perspective. And that despite comprising 99.86% of our solar system, Earth's orbit was somehow not disrupted, nor was this event felt or even noticed outside of this single community.
At what point would such an extraordinary event have to be the work of your god? Yours is merely one of thousands that this miracle could be attributed to. If you were born Hindu, you'd probably be carrying on about Surya instead. Hey, maybe it was Ra trying to prove that he's still around.


Or perhaps they're trying to build greater interest for their apparition gathering next week.



(Oh, ...Dawkins is a biologist, not a physicist.)
Quite obviously because the shepherd children attested that they spoke to Our Lady of Fatima. Three secrets were entrusted to Lucia. Here is one of them.
"I have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."[20]

Obviously this is a Christian message given to a Christian girl in a Christian nation. The message is extremely Catholic in nature. Our Lady of Fatima revealed to the children the place and time of the miraculous event which was revealed to the assembled people. This miracle was not given to the Hindu, the followers of Ra, Orthodox, Protestants or the Muslim. It was given only to the Catholic. As are the vast majority of miracles from the Catholic church. The miracles of the Catholic church are stupendous and the miracles of the protestant, hindu, muslim and Jew are virtually non-existent.

"Acts 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands."

"Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe"

The fact that these are Catholic miracles and no other religion can demonstrate the signs and wonders of the apostolic church is one proof among many that the Catholic faith is the one true religion and all the rest are false.

That is so incredibly circular that I'm surprised your head doesn't come spinning off your neck. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2013, 07:06 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(09-10-2013 05:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is so incredibly circular that I'm surprised your head doesn't come spinning off your neck. Drinking Beverage


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I'm still surprised that people still don't get what's wrong with this thought process.

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09-10-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(09-10-2013 04:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The fact that these are Catholic miracles and no other religion can demonstrate the signs and wonders of the apostolic church is one proof among many that the Catholic faith is the one true religion and all the rest are false.

More from the heretic. Tongue
If they are real miracles, they are not "Catholic miracles". Just plain miracles.

The RC Church no longer claims it is the "one true church".
Lumen Gentium (Vatican II), says the Catholic church ''SUBsists within the church of Christ". It does NOT say it is "the one true religion". It also says "many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parochialism

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-10-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(09-10-2013 04:59 AM)excubitor Wrote:  "I have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to :sestablish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is goin to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out"

Well how self fulfilling is this? If everyone believes and stops fighting, it's proof that he exists. If they don't and keep fighting, it's proof that he exists.

What was that about circular?Rolleyes

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-10-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
A little "spiritual reading" for our Catholic troll. Tongue

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-10-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(08-10-2013 04:07 AM)excubitor Wrote:  So the force of gravity diminishes the further away from the core of the earth we get. No kidding. Just as well we have a genius here to explain basic stuff like that to us.

Quick question, for a fellow genius.

Are other objects are affected by gravity (such as, by way of example: every object ever observed)?

Then what about... the sun?

Drinking Beverage

(08-10-2013 04:38 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Higg's boson has not been found. This is an utter lie to justify the expenditure of the equivalent of the GDP of a small European country on the latter day Tower of Babel called the Large Hadron Collider.

Yes. They are all lying. Every single person involved.

That seems likely.

(08-10-2013 04:38 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Did you know that no device has ever detected the rotation of the earth. Not ever, not even after 400 years of preaching that the earth is rotating. Yet you believe that.

Yes. Except, of course, for the part where that's not true.

Satellites.

(or, are those also a 'conspiracy'? I'd be very curious as to what does cause GPS signals, in that case...)

(08-10-2013 04:38 AM)excubitor Wrote:  That's right. You are men of faith just as much as I am. You place your faith in science to explain the universe to you, whereas I place my faith in the living Creator God.

Ah, but your faith makes you an ignorant blowhard, whereas science tends to get shit done (without which your life would not be possible, shame though that would indeed be).

(08-10-2013 04:38 AM)excubitor Wrote:  What Einstein is saying is that under the tenets of GR it is indeed possible to create a physical model which has the earth at rest and the universe rotating around it. So if it is possible to build such a model why don't they, the physicists, to prove the point of Einstein. The reason they do not is because philosophically they are opposed to the concept of an earth at rest and a rotating universe. What he is also saying is that the there is no relative difference between the relative motion between a particular location on earth and a distant star.

I'm left wondering, as ever with these sorts of things, whether a statement so ignorant arises from genuine misunderstanding, or a profound will to misunderstand. Comparing reference frames is a standard university physics exercise. As in something done by every physicist ever. Not that you'd know anything about that.

Mathematically equivalent systems are not necessarily physically equivalent systems. Based on observation and reason (so, you and your faith's two worst enemies), we may compare different physical systems and come to conclusions as to their likelihood.

(protip: the earth goes around the sun)

(08-10-2013 04:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  I am happy to accept physical forces as explanations for wonderful things like the motion of the planets if they are proved or at least passingly plausible. In fact the ones put forward by physicists are neither proved not plausible, therefore I am not at all flustered to have to depend on miracles to explain these gaps.

The 'gaps' are in your comprehension, so that's not surprising.

(08-10-2013 04:46 AM)excubitor Wrote:  There will always be gaps in our knowledge. Some are so large that physicists invent a universe made up of 95% dark matter to fill them. God however fills every gap whether it be big or small. God is in everything which is not a gap also, because his sustaining power is omnipotent and omnipresent. If God lifted his finger for a microsecond from the sustainment of the universe it would instantly vanish. He spoke it into existence and he could speak it out of existence just as easily. You have no concept of the power of God, none at all.

So literally God of the gaps. How compelling.

(08-10-2013 04:58 AM)excubitor Wrote:  How wonderful these frothy meditations, not only is man now just one ape amongst many apes, and our earth just one planet among all the planets, and our sun just one star amongst all the stars. Now OUR ENTIRE UNIVERSE is just one bubble in a froth of foaming universes in the jacuzzi of the multiverse. Give me a break. This is not speculation, this is not even daydreaming, this is an utter disgrace to human thought and dignity. No amount of soaking in the tub is going to clean this utterly crazy myth away.

Argument from facetious incredulity. How compelling.

You know, people didn't like the ideas of quantum mechanics at first, either. Except it works, so whether you like the idea or not is immaterial.

...

(08-10-2013 04:07 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Like I said. Is anything impossible to God? If he wants the sun to dance at Fatima and nowhere else in the world then he is not bound by any physical circumstance or physical reality. He is beyond time and space. He created the fabric of the physical realm, he can make whatever reality he wants, when he wants and where he wants. You cannot gainsay God who is over all things small and great.

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How compelling.

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