Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
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28-09-2013, 07:46 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(28-09-2013 07:22 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(28-09-2013 05:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Gold-leafing and solid gold are slightly different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilding


So there is no real disagreement between Dance and I, as I was responding to your claim that it was thicker gold covering the wheels. Gold Leaf would not have covered the entire wheel and would have flaked off as the wood disintegrated. However if, as you claimed, it was a thicker gold covering, it would not have crumbled upon being raised up.

As to the claim it was a valve wheel it is far more likely than the claim of it being a chariot wheel from an event that has never had a single piece of non-biblical evidence. Exodus has been rather thoroughly debunked by people with a much greater interest in having that story be true. 150 years of continuous archeology has thus far show no evidence of any of the events described and much evidence that shows the evolution of semitic tribes from a polytheistic religion into a shrinking pantheon until only the cult of Yahweh grabbed the power.

It always interests me when people try to argue the impossible. How weak must ones faith be that reality itself must be ignored to keep all the pieces of it in place? To be a YEC biblical literalist one must take the stance that all of science is wrong. A stance that is indefensible when making it on the internet using a computer powered by electricity. All of those thing work because the theories and principles that we have discovered, theories that do not work in a 6000 year old universe.

As I mentioned in a previous post anything heavy like a thick metal gilding even on the outside of the wheel would have sunk the chariot down in the sand. The Egyptians were always fighting the sand in the desert and the lightweight quality of their chariots was what made them work so well in that environment.

Of course the whole Exodus story is myth so it doesn't really matter.

If this one artifact was actually from an event which is described in Exodus, with the numbers involved, there would be thousands of other artifacts, in a distribution pattern, lying around it. there are none.

In fact one the first real pieces of evidence for any interaction between the inhabitants of Canaan, and the Egyptians, is the Menepteh Stele.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
Why is this victory by the Egyptians not recorded in the Bible if it's accurate "history" ?
Cuz the Bible is not "history" by any stretch of any imagination.
No legitimate Archaeologist would give this discussion about Wyatt, the amateur charlatan, even a moment of time.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-09-2013, 11:12 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
Did you ever read the entire Merneptah stele?

http://www.bibledudes.com/biblical-studi...lation.php

The first 140 lines read distinctly different from the last 10....but jesus freaks are never interested in the first 140.
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28-09-2013, 11:54 PM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
There comes a point when an argument starts to go around in circles. That point has come for this point about the chariot wheels.
Of course I do not have absolute proof that they are chariot wheels from the Red sea parting event. However I believe the evidence is very strong. None of the arguments presented here give any better explanation for what the photographed wheel was. In fact the alternative theories offered by my opponents are preposterous and are far inferior theories to the ones offered by the men who actually witnessed, touched and photographed the wheels.
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29-09-2013, 12:08 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(28-09-2013 11:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  There comes a point when an argument starts to go around in circles. That point has come for this point about the chariot wheels.
Of course I do not have absolute proof that they are chariot wheels from the Red sea parting event. However I believe the evidence is very strong. None of the arguments presented here give any better explanation for what the photographed wheel was. In fact the alternative theories offered by my opponents are preposterous and are far inferior theories to the ones offered by the men who actually witnessed, touched and photographed the wheels.

You have really strange notions of what the terms "evidence," "better," preposterous," and "inferior" mean.

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29-09-2013, 12:12 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
Quote:However I believe the evidence is very strong.

That belief is absurd. In the last 40 years archaeology has trashed these bible stories. But don't take my word for it. Ze'ev Herzog is an archaeologist at Tel Aviv University. In 1999 he published the following article.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/704190/posts

Quote:Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn't want to hear about it.

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.
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29-09-2013, 12:24 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(28-09-2013 11:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  There comes a point when an argument starts to go around in circles. That point has come for this point about the chariot wheels.
Of course I do not have absolute proof that they are chariot wheels from the Red sea parting event. However I believe the evidence is very strong. None of the arguments presented here give any better explanation for what the photographed wheel was. In fact the alternative theories offered by my opponents are preposterous and are far inferior theories to the ones offered by the men who actually witnessed, touched and photographed the wheels.

Bullshit, and you know it. But please keep up the ruse. Drinking Beverage

Preposterous, I think you need to look at that word and apply it accordingly.

(28-09-2013 05:09 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Christians believe many implausible and fantastic things like the virgin birth and the resurrection.

By your own admission, it is a more reasoned approach to consider the fantastic things in the bible as more than likely not true.

im·plau·si·ble adjective \(ˌ)im-ˈplȯ-zə-bəl\
: not believable or realistic : not plausible

You've got a lot of holes to take care of. I hope the fingers you have to plug the holes in your story are as multipliable as the loaves and fish. Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-09-2013, 03:29 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(29-09-2013 12:24 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(28-09-2013 11:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  There comes a point when an argument starts to go around in circles. That point has come for this point about the chariot wheels.
Of course I do not have absolute proof that they are chariot wheels from the Red sea parting event. However I believe the evidence is very strong. None of the arguments presented here give any better explanation for what the photographed wheel was. In fact the alternative theories offered by my opponents are preposterous and are far inferior theories to the ones offered by the men who actually witnessed, touched and photographed the wheels.

Bullshit, and you know it. But please keep up the ruse. Drinking Beverage

Preposterous, I think you need to look at that word and apply it accordingly.

(28-09-2013 05:09 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Christians believe many implausible and fantastic things like the virgin birth and the resurrection.

By your own admission, it is a more reasoned approach to consider the fantastic things in the bible as more than likely not true.

im·plau·si·ble adjective \(ˌ)im-ˈplȯ-zə-bəl\
: not believable or realistic : not plausible

You've got a lot of holes to take care of. I hope the fingers you have to plug the holes in your story are as multipliable as the loaves and fish. Drinking Beverage
The stories are implausible and fantastic from a human point of view, but when you know that the God who is the author of all creation is capable of achieving miracles which by their very definition are fantastic and implausible from a human point of view, then there is no problem with believing for those who have faith in God.
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29-09-2013, 04:33 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(29-09-2013 03:29 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The stories are implausible and fantastic from a human point of view, but when you know that the God who is the author of all creation is capable of achieving miracles which by their very definition are fantastic and implausible from a human point of view, then there is no problem with believing for those who have faith in God.

Like you said, we humans are only capable of human point of view, how can you than claim knowledge about something that requires point of view that is outside of human capability?

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29-09-2013, 05:02 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(28-09-2013 11:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  There comes a point when an argument starts to go around in circles.

That's not us, that's you. Everybody else besides PJ is on the same page, and has argued the same points from the beginning.

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29-09-2013, 05:33 AM
RE: Ron Wyatt Finds The Blood Of Christ,Won't Produce It
(29-09-2013 04:33 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(29-09-2013 03:29 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The stories are implausible and fantastic from a human point of view, but when you know that the God who is the author of all creation is capable of achieving miracles which by their very definition are fantastic and implausible from a human point of view, then there is no problem with believing for those who have faith in God.

Like you said, we humans are only capable of human point of view, how can you than claim knowledge about something that requires point of view that is outside of human capability?
Of ourselves we can only understand human things that is true. In order to understand the divine thoughts, plans and knowledge of God we can only discern these things through the Grace of God and by the action of his Holy Spirit.

So I understand these things because I am a spiritual man, born again of the Holy Spirit in baptism, having received the power to defend the faith through the confirmation of the Holy Spirit which I received by anointing from the hand of the priest of God.

However when i speak to you and others who have not received this Grace and enlightenment they do not understand or believe. It all sounds like nonsense and foolishness to them. This is not through any fault in my words or in my logic or in my understanding. it is because of the fog of darkness and delusion that Satan has wrapped mankind into. This world is a world held captive in ignorance, deception and delusion, by the prince of deception and the father of lies who is the devil.

Fortunately however God promises that all who seek him will find him. All who ask of him will receive from him. He says that by humbling oneself and taking on a humble and contrite heart before the Lord the snares of the devil can be broken and the soul can be liberated to reach out towards God and come to know the things of God. This is within the reach of all men of good will who seek the Lord while he may still be found. But the day comes and is not far off when the days of mercy will end and the days of judgement will start. In that day the Lord will no longer be close by and those who call out will not be heard. The terrible judgement of the Lord will fall upon all men, the righteous will remain righteous and the wicked will remain wicked in that day. This is the fear of the Lord to fear this day which comes and is not far off. With great urgency therefore I implore you to put aside the frivolities of this earthly life and seek for a higher purpose which can only be found from the hand of God. Cast yourselves upon your knees, thrust your hands toward heaven and cry out to the Lord, and he will raise you up on eagles wings and in the last day receive you into his heavenly kingdom.
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