Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
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04-12-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 03:56 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:54 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I think it's a culture issue. If we want to reduce the impact of guns in our society we've got to make them less "cool" and less attractive in the culture. This already worked with smoking. In the late 90s, seemingly out of nowhere, people just stopped smoking in movies. Remember that? Even teen movies like American Pie wherein kids got up to all kinds of shenanigans, dicks in pies, flutes in pussies, cum in the pale ale, but no cigarettes. I truly believe when you're dealing with the HARDCORE gun enthusiast, you're dealing with somebody who's got the maturity level of about a 13-year-old. So deal with it accordingly, stop putting guns in movies and TV shows, or even better make the characters who have guns in movies appear awkward and unable to get laid and people won't want them as badly. There's a great quote from John Waters, something like, "We have to make books cool again, if you go home with someone and they don't have books, don't fuck them." Let's do the same with guns only in reverse - if they have guns, no action. Attitudes about guns will shift pretty quickly if they become a hindrance to social well-being.

Saving Private Ryan would have been such a different movie.

That's actually an interesting example. I had to go see that movie by myself. The guy I usually go to movies with didn't want to see it because he "heard it was anti-war". I thought that was kind of a goofy reason (what's wrong with being anti-war?), but also not quite true. I did not find the movie to be explicitly anti-war, but it had the same effect. It showed how war really is, rather than glorifying it. It did not make me say "Yeah! I want to do that!" It made me say "Hell no! I never want to do that!" I doubt that it made many people think that we need more guns or more wars.
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04-12-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 01:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  To those who argue that we would all be "safer" if everyone owned and carried a gun at all times: Would it make you feel "safer" if each and every country in the world had nuclear weapons?

I think this is a valid point. Is there anyone here who subscribes to having all countries with nuclear capabilities? Why or why not?

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04-12-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 02:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Home-made bombs are easy-peasy, the components are readily available.

I could go out to my garage and assemble a deadly bomb in minutes. Drinking Beverage

Maybe you can. I would venture to say that the vast majority of individuals do not. I would also propose to you that the vast majority of individuals can figure out how to point a gun and pull a trigger.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 04:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  See post #90.

Inanimate guns in his house are not comparable in danger to those.

A valid comparison would be loaded, unsecured firearms outside his home.

And I counter that gasoline cans, pyrotechnics and holes in the ground are just as inanimate.

They are public dangers; the law even has a term for things like those - "attractive nuisance". Kids will investigate them and many injuries and deaths will occur.

They are pretty much nothing like guns inside the house.

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04-12-2015, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 04:29 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 04:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 04:10 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And I counter that gasoline cans, pyrotechnics and holes in the ground are just as inanimate.

They are public dangers; the law even has a term for things like those - "attractive nuisance". Kids will investigate them and many injuries and deaths will occur.

They are pretty much nothing like guns inside the house.

I’m glad you said that. If there ever was a better example of an “attractive nuisance” than a gun inside a house for kids to play with I don’t know of one.

I’m going to forgo the citing of deaths and injuries caused by guns in the hands of children, I’m sure we both know that whatever that number is, it is too many.

ps The doctrine (of attractive nuisance) has been applied to hold landowners liable for injuries caused by abandoned cars, piles of lumber or sand, trampolines, and swimming pools. However, it can be applied to virtually anything on the property of the landowner.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 03:56 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:54 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I think it's a culture issue. If we want to reduce the impact of guns in our society we've got to make them less "cool" and less attractive in the culture. This already worked with smoking. In the late 90s, seemingly out of nowhere, people just stopped smoking in movies. Remember that? Even teen movies like American Pie wherein kids got up to all kinds of shenanigans, dicks in pies, flutes in pussies, cum in the pale ale, but no cigarettes. I truly believe when you're dealing with the HARDCORE gun enthusiast, you're dealing with somebody who's got the maturity level of about a 13-year-old. So deal with it accordingly, stop putting guns in movies and TV shows, or even better make the characters who have guns in movies appear awkward and unable to get laid and people won't want them as badly. There's a great quote from John Waters, something like, "We have to make books cool again, if you go home with someone and they don't have books, don't fuck them." Let's do the same with guns only in reverse - if they have guns, no action. Attitudes about guns will shift pretty quickly if they become a hindrance to social well-being.

Saving Private Ryan would have been such a different movie.

Saving Private Ryan was a semi historical film about a war. I don't think anyone is talking about sanitizing history.

But people did complain when the show Mad Men showed people chain smoking. They did seem to dial it back a little in later seasons. But to be honest it was far more authentic in the beginning.

I remember a few years back some network did a period show involving the early years of the airline industry. They showed stewardesses of every race and no smoking anywhere in the show.

That wasn't exactly an accurate representation of the time.

As far as period pieces go, I prefer they be accurate to the time they are supposed to represent -- than sanitized by what we deem wrong today.

Sorry for the derail...


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04-12-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:36 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea and? So why are we not profiling white people? McVeigh wasn't a Muslim. Eric Rudolph wasn't a Muslim. The Unibomber wasn't a Muslim. Eric Harris and Dillon Klebold brought a homemade bomb to Columbine.

"Other bad shit happens" so "do nothing about gun deaths"......Nope, not an excuse.

Guns are much easier to use and we make way too many and they are too easy to access both legally and illegally.

You keep repeating that refrain.
Isn't about time for you to offer some sort of constructive solution? Or at least steps in that direction?

I have, you just are too selfish to consider doing something different. Now, here it is again for the ADD aflicted.

1. Guns are not humans, guns are objects, stop treating an object as if it is living.

2. We need to stop making so many. Limit the amount made per year.

3. Nobody needs a spray weapon or big clip.

4. None of the above or even the rest of this list is saying "ban all guns"

5. Keep them out of the wrong hands, I think anyone would agree with that.

6. That means having no criminal record when you buy it isn't enough, the SB shooters had no record, the Va Tech shooter had no record.

7.Not just universal background checks, but mandatory psych evaluation.

8. Mandatory stress training, not just target hitting.

9. Periodic review for both mental and stress capability.

7. Liability insurance for injury or death

10. Ban on online sales.

11. Close gunshow loophole

12. Traceable ammo, limit on ammo.

13. Move to manufacturing smart guns

14. Mandatory 7 day waiting period and limit on total number of guns in a household.

15. Re read 4 until you stop being paranoid. None of that says "ban all guns".

And related to all that, investment in mental health care, and health care in general. Livable wages. Cheaper or free higher education. End corporate welfare.

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04-12-2015, 04:34 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 04:29 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:56 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Saving Private Ryan would have been such a different movie.

Saving Private Ryan was a semi historical film about a war. I don't think anyone is talking about sanitizing history.

But people did complain when the show Mad Men showed people chain smoking. They did seem to dial it back a little in later seasons. But to be honest it was far more authentic in the beginning.

I remember a few years back some network did a period show involving the early years of the airline industry. They showed stewardesses of every race and no smoking anywhere in the show.

That wasn't exactly an accurate representation of the time.

As far as period pieces go, I prefer they be accurate to the time they are supposed to represent -- than sanitized by what we deem wrong today.

Sorry for the derail...

It was mostly just a tongue in cheek comment, Saving Private Ryan was just the first war movie that came to mind.

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04-12-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 04:31 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  You keep repeating that refrain.
Isn't about time for you to offer some sort of constructive solution? Or at least steps in that direction?

I have, you just are too selfish to consider doing something different. Now, here it is again for the ADD aflicted.

1. Guns are not humans, guns are objects, stop treating an object as if it is living.

2. We need to stop making so many. Limit the amount made per year.

3. Nobody needs a spray weapon or big clip.

4. None of the above or even the rest of this list is saying "ban all guns"

5. Keep them out of the wrong hands, I think anyone would agree with that.

6. That means having no criminal record when you buy it isn't enough, the SB shooters had no record, the Va Tech shooter had no record.

7.Not just universal background checks, but mandatory psych evaluation.

8. Mandatory stress training, not just target hitting.

9. Periodic review for both mental and stress capability.

7. Liability insurance for injury or death

10. Ban on online sales.

11. Close gunshow loophole

12. Traceable ammo, limit on ammo.

13. Move to manufacturing smart guns

14. Mandatory 7 day waiting period and limit on total number of guns in a household.

15. Re read 4 until you stop being paranoid. None of that says "ban all guns".

And related to all that, investment in mental health care, and health care in general. Livable wages. Cheaper or free higher education. End corporate welfare.

Damn. Could you imagine if we had all of those requirements to exercise any of the other rights in the Constitution? Background checks for free speech? Limits on how many times you can go to church in a week?

How about we stop limiting rights of everyone because others can't do the right thing?

If you want the things you listed, change the Constitution. Because most of those things you listed are INFRINGEMENTS, and are prohibited.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-12-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 04:31 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 03:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  You keep repeating that refrain.
Isn't about time for you to offer some sort of constructive solution? Or at least steps in that direction?

5. Keep them out of the wrong hands, I think anyone would agree with that.

To drive this point home:

From 2004 to 2014, over 2,000 terror suspects legally purchased guns in the United States

"Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.) introduced a bill to do that earlier this year. The “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2015” would prevent several hundred gun purchases by suspected terrorists each year, and it includes provisions to let people challenge a denial if they believe they were placed on the watchlist in error.

But these bills have rarely made it out of committee, in part due to vehement opposition from the National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...ying-guns/

It is nearly impossible in the US to implement any law, no matter how well thought out, no matter how much sense it makes that curtails in any way shape or form the possession of firearms, even to terror suspects. Facepalm

The status quo on firearms in the US in light of every tragedy carried out with firearms is to me unconscionable.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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