Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
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06-12-2015, 11:54 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(06-12-2015 11:47 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 09:38 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Your “throwing my hands up in the air because this problem can’t be fixed” is narrow minded and short sighted and ignores the statistics from Australia after they banned assault rifles in 1996.

"In the 18 years before the Port Arthur attack and passage of the NFA, Australians endured 13 mass shootings, claiming 112 lives. In the years following the bans and buybacks, firearm-related deaths plummeted, and mass shootings became largely a thing of the past.

In 2012, the Guardian published new statistics drawn from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and Small Arms Survey showing only "30 homicides by firearm" annually in Australia, or "0.14 per 100,000 population."

The U.S. statistics are bloated by comparison. Over the same period, Americans suffered "9,146 homicides by firearm," at a rate of 2.97 for every 100,000 people. Sixty percent of murders in the U.S. are committed with a gun, according to the Guardian, compared to 11.5% in Australia.”

2.97/0.14 = 21.2 times as many. The math isn’t on your side.

As for the government fearing public uprisings, citation please.

You just proved my point. You all want total gun bans, Australian style. But you know it will never happen. Americans are not Australian. The second that law passed you'd have civil war. You know it. The politicians know it.

I await from you just one pre-emptive solution to decrease gun violence in America that doesn’t entail more guns.

As for the point I was making, I was countering your example of France with Australia. That you chose not to see this and jump to assertions does not surprise me.

I also noticed that you completely ignored the numbers, I wonder why. Consider Could it be because they don’t support your suppositional assertions?

ps As for the government fearing public uprisings, citation please.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-12-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
So, is it safe for me to assume after reading this thread that Brian doesn't like guns?

FFS...point fucking made already.

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06-12-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(06-12-2015 11:54 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 11:47 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  You just proved my point. You all want total gun bans, Australian style. But you know it will never happen. Americans are not Australian. The second that law passed you'd have civil war. You know it. The politicians know it.

I await from you just one pre-emptive solution to decrease gun violence in America that doesn’t entail more guns.

As for the point I was making, I was countering your example of France with Australia. That you chose not to see this and jump to assertions does not surprise me.

I also noticed that you completely ignored the numbers, I wonder why. Consider Could it be because they don’t support your suppositional assertions?

ps As for the government fearing public uprisings, citation please.

Because your numbers are irrelevant in the age of terrorism. Australia banned guns. It hasn't prevented Islamic extremists from killing. Nor did France's gun laws. I'm all for some reasonable gun control measures to prevent street crime. But none of those measures will prevent terrorism. This recent attack will not be an isolated incident. There will others. So we will need to protect ourselves. More people will need to be armed. Gun free zones must be outlawed.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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06-12-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(06-12-2015 12:06 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'm all for some reasonable gun control measures to prevent street crime.

Like?



ps As for the government fearing public uprisings, citation please.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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07-12-2015, 09:29 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(06-12-2015 12:06 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 11:54 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I await from you just one pre-emptive solution to decrease gun violence in America that doesn’t entail more guns.

As for the point I was making, I was countering your example of France with Australia. That you chose not to see this and jump to assertions does not surprise me.

I also noticed that you completely ignored the numbers, I wonder why. Consider Could it be because they don’t support your suppositional assertions?

ps As for the government fearing public uprisings, citation please.

Because your numbers are irrelevant in the age of terrorism. Australia banned guns. It hasn't prevented Islamic extremists from killing. Nor did France's gun laws. I'm all for some reasonable gun control measures to prevent street crime. But none of those measures will prevent terrorism. This recent attack will not be an isolated incident. There will others. So we will need to protect ourselves. More people will need to be armed. Gun free zones must be outlawed.

You might want to look up the total number of gun deaths in the US in any given year and compare it to the number of gun deaths involving Islamic terrorists. I guarantee the second number is a small fraction of the first. Most gun control advocates are not freaked out about ""Islamic terrorists" like you seem to be. They mainly would like to see that larger number decrease. Terrorism is not the primary issue here.
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07-12-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(07-12-2015 09:29 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(06-12-2015 12:06 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Because your numbers are irrelevant in the age of terrorism. Australia banned guns. It hasn't prevented Islamic extremists from killing. Nor did France's gun laws. I'm all for some reasonable gun control measures to prevent street crime. But none of those measures will prevent terrorism. This recent attack will not be an isolated incident. There will others. So we will need to protect ourselves. More people will need to be armed. Gun free zones must be outlawed.

You might want to look up the total number of gun deaths in the US in any given year and compare it to the number of gun deaths involving Islamic terrorists. I guarantee the second number is a small fraction of the first. Most gun control advocates are not freaked out about ""Islamic terrorists" like you seem to be. They mainly would like to see that larger number decrease. Terrorism is not the primary issue here.

Welll............ Maybe..........

If you watch the US media with a critical eye - you'll notice that some stuff that certainly should qualify as "domestic terrorism", gets written off as "just ordinary criminals"......

I suspect it's strictly political.

When one gang goes and shoots up the "turf" of a rival gang with the intent of scaring the shit out of the rivals --- isn't that terrorism??? They're using terror as a tactic --- it sure seems like it qualifies to me.... But -- invariably it will be called "gang related violence".....

................

I'm always reminded of the old line --- "It's ONLY a cold sore"..................

Yeah, sure honey --- thanks, I'll pass..............

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-12-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
Here is an interesting document for you all:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

If you scroll down to Table 10 ("Number of deaths from 113 selected causes"), you will see that far more people die from disease (much of it preventable -- i.e, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc.) than from any kind of violence. If you keep going down (way down) the list until you get to violent causes, here's what you find for 2013 (these data are for the US):

35,369 -- Motor vehicle accidents
21,175 -- Suicide by discharge of firearms
11,208 -- Homicide by discharge of firearms

I don't see a number for "killed by Islamic terrorists", but I'll bet that number is less than 100 for any year other than 2001 (and even for that year, it's less than any of the numbers above). Islamic terrorism is literally a drop in the bucket.
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07-12-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(07-12-2015 09:39 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(07-12-2015 09:29 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You might want to look up the total number of gun deaths in the US in any given year and compare it to the number of gun deaths involving Islamic terrorists. I guarantee the second number is a small fraction of the first. Most gun control advocates are not freaked out about ""Islamic terrorists" like you seem to be. They mainly would like to see that larger number decrease. Terrorism is not the primary issue here.

Welll............ Maybe..........

If you watch the US media with a critical eye - you'll notice that some stuff that certainly should qualify as "domestic terrorism", gets written off as "just ordinary criminals"......

I suspect it's strictly political.

When one gang goes and shoots up the "turf" of a rival gang with the intent of scaring the shit out of the rivals --- isn't that terrorism??? They're using terror as a tactic --- it sure seems like it qualifies to me.... But -- invariably it will be called "gang related violence".....

................

I'm always reminded of the old line --- "It's ONLY a cold sore"..................

Yeah, sure honey --- thanks, I'll pass..............

I was responding to Lord Dark Helmet, who seems inordinately worried about "Islamic terrorism". None of your examples qualify.
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07-12-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(07-12-2015 09:59 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I was responding to Lord Dark Helmet, who seems inordinately worried about "Islamic terrorism".

It's well beyond the threshold of "inordinate" and has crossed the line of "delusional". And, he is not alone. I'm running into this nonsense all over.

You have a better chance of dying from the flu than a terrorist attack, but people still debate the need for flu shots. But, tell those same people you're going to round up all Muslims and you can possibly win the Republican nomination.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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08-12-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
Australians are worried about the US Smile




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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