Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
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04-12-2015, 11:40 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
So as far as I seen from here on the news, this guy, gets in office party argument, goes home, picks up his wife, loads his car with weapons and, shoots every one in his path? This just doesn't make any sense, this is more of a planned attack than anything else. What is it exactly that the media is hiding here? Consider

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04-12-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 10:15 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 09:37 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Right back at you. The guy in the story with the 5,000 weapons must be part of that “well regulated militia” you speak of?

We can sit here and debate what it means from now until the next mass killing, active shooter incident, 4 year old shoots sibling headline. But leaving things as they are does nothing to change this.

Supporting the status quo is the same as sticking your head in the sand.

[Image: 4b3b5491fbd0811b1a9728a90228fa95.jpg]

No, guy in the story is a criminal trafficking in stolen guns. Mass shooter is a criminal. Active shooters are criminals. And parents that leave their guns where children can reach them should be criminals and are in a lot of states. Don't restrict me for the actions of others. That's called "blanket punishment."

Punish the criminals. Stop the mentally ill from acquiring guns. Make mandatory life in prison for gun crimes.

Punishment is a dime short and a day late.

When people are willing to leave their 6 month old on their way to a suicide mission punishment isn’t a deterrent.

You seem to be completely blinded by the fear that someone will come and take your guns to the point that you will completely disregard the reality of what is going on around you and shrug it off. The similarities to the fundamentally religious is uncanny.

The fact is you don’t have a solution. You don’t know how to stop this and if you do you are unwilling to go there. All you seem capable of saying is leave it alone. Am I wrong? Do you have some well thought out steps that can be taken to prevent more horrific murders using guns BEFORE the fact?

I’m all ears.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 11:40 AM)izel Wrote:  So as far as I seen from here on the news, this guy, gets in office party argument, goes home, picks up his wife, loads his car with weapons and, shoots every one in his path? This just doesn't make any sense, this is more of a planned attack than anything else. What is it exactly that the media is hiding here? Consider

Wife in San Bernardino Attack Pledged ISIS Allegiance, Officials Say

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/tas....html?_r=0

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 11:45 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 10:15 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No, guy in the story is a criminal trafficking in stolen guns. Mass shooter is a criminal. Active shooters are criminals. And parents that leave their guns where children can reach them should be criminals and are in a lot of states. Don't restrict me for the actions of others. That's called "blanket punishment."

Punish the criminals. Stop the mentally ill from acquiring guns. Make mandatory life in prison for gun crimes.

Punishment is a dime short and a day late.

When people are willing to leave their 6 month old on their way to a suicide mission punishment isn’t a deterrent.

You seem to be completely blinded by the fear that someone will come and take your guns to the point that you will completely disregard the reality of what is going on around you and shrug it off. The similarities to the fundamentally religious is uncanny.

The fact is you don’t have a solution. You don’t know how to stop this and if you do you are unwilling to go there. All you seem capable of saying is leave it alone. Am I wrong? Do you have some well thought out steps that can be taken to prevent more horrific murders using guns BEFORE the fact?

I’m all ears.

Sure. But I'm not very PC about it.

1. Lock up all mentally ill people. If there is no hope for rehabilitation they should be removed from society. Multiple mental professionals and judges must agree.
2. Put major criminal penalties on gun crimes. I'm talking real prison time for the most minor gun crime. 25 years for robbery is a start. Life for attempted murder. If the intent was to kill the punishment should be the same as actual killing. 25 years for any kind of gun crime from illegal possession to armed robbery. This will probably get rid of a lot of gang firearm violence and "brandishing" crimes.
3. Remove all gun free zones. They won't succeed in these mass killings if they realize that they'll only be able to shoot a couple people before everyone else in the room shoots back they might not even try.
4. Death penalty for all murders, rapes, and child molestation proven by video surveillance or DNA. Rid the country of SCUM.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-12-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 12:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 11:45 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Punishment is a dime short and a day late.

When people are willing to leave their 6 month old on their way to a suicide mission punishment isn’t a deterrent.

You seem to be completely blinded by the fear that someone will come and take your guns to the point that you will completely disregard the reality of what is going on around you and shrug it off. The similarities to the fundamentally religious is uncanny.

The fact is you don’t have a solution. You don’t know how to stop this and if you do you are unwilling to go there. All you seem capable of saying is leave it alone. Am I wrong? Do you have some well thought out steps that can be taken to prevent more horrific murders using guns BEFORE the fact?

I’m all ears.

Sure. But I'm not very PC about it.

1. Lock up all mentally ill people. If there is no hope for rehabilitation they should be removed from society. Multiple mental professionals and judges must agree.
2. Put major criminal penalties on gun crimes. I'm talking real prison time for the most minor gun crime. 25 years for robbery is a start. Life for attempted murder. If the intent was to kill the punishment should be the same as actual killing. 25 years for any kind of gun crime from illegal possession to armed robbery. This will probably get rid of a lot of gang firearm violence and "brandishing" crimes.
3. Remove all gun free zones. They won't succeed in these mass killings if they realize that they'll only be able to shoot a couple people before everyone else in the room shoots back they might not even try.
4. Death penalty for all murders, rapes, and child molestation proven by video surveillance or DNA. Rid the country of SCUM.

#1 - What if they couldn’t purchase a gun to begin with?
#2 - After the fact
#3 - I hardly think that the two Bernardino terrorists would have checked on the internet where the gun free zones are. But your point seems to be more guns in more places correct?
#4 - After the fact.

I would like to know what PRE-EMPTIVE steps can be taken BEFORE the crime is committed with a gun.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
These people were Muslims and had pledged allegiance to ISIS:

http://qz.com/566160/san-bernardino-shoo...olice-say/

San Bernardino shooting: female suspect 'pledged loyalty to Isil leader during attack' - live
Telegraph.co.uk‎ - 19 mins ago
Wife in San Bernardino attack 'pledged support to ISIL'
Al Jazeera‎ - 2 hours ago
More news for san bernardino shooter pledge allegiance to isil
San Bernardino shooting: female suspect 'pledged loyalty to ...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk › News › World News › North America › USA
19 mins ago - Tashfeen Malik 'pledged allegiance to Isil leader' • Syed Farook and .... San Bernardino shooting suspect Syed Rizwan Farook. Photo: DMV.
Woman in San Bernardino shooting pledged allegiance to ...
news.nationalpost.com/.../woman-in-san-bernardino-shooting-pledged-al...
2 hours ago - Woman in San Bernardino shooting pledged allegiance to ISIL, source says. Amanda Lee Myers and Tami Abdollah, The Associated Press ...
Wife in San Bernardino attack 'pledged support to ISIL' - Al ...
http://www.aljazeera.com/.../wife-san-be...-isil-1...
2 hours ago - The shooting in San Bernardino, California, killed 14 people and ... The female attacker in the San Bernardino shootings pledged allegiance to ...
CNN: San Bernardino Shooter Declared Loyalty to ISIS ...
http://www.nationalreview.com/.../cnn-sa...-loyalt...
3 hours ago - CNN: San Bernardino Shooter Declared Loyalty to ISIS ... shooter, Tashfeen Malik, posted on Facebook, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr ... “ISIL is not going to pose an existential threat to us, they are a dangerous ...
San Bernardino shooter pledged ISIS allegiance: CNN ...
http://www.businessinsider.com/san-berna...nn-2015-12
3 hours ago - San Bernardino shooter allegedly pledged allegiance to ISIS' ... attack was likely inspired by ISIS (also known as ISIL and the Islamic State), but ...
San Bernardino Female Shooter Pledged Allegiance to ...
sputniknews.com/us/20151204/1031263151/san-bernardino-daesh.html
2 hours ago - A San Bernardino female shooter pledged her support to Daesh (also known as ISIL or the Islamic State) terrorist group prior to carrying an ...
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04-12-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 11:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 11:03 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This guy wasn't. The LAPD believes all of his 1200 guns were obtained legally.

Looks like a case of "tacti-cool." Tactical wannabe. Harmless dork. 1200 guns, all obtained legally apparently. None of them hurt anybody. Only "crime" here would be not having these firearms in a safe. That's just stupid to have them sitting in a room.

Bold above by me.

At what point would you say that someone’s actions have the potential to be harmful to themselves and others and need to be curtailed? Never?

You come across as having disassociated yourself from common sense.

Neighbor stores 1,200 cans of gasoline in his basement next to your house. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Neighbor digs a twenty foot pit in his backyard, has no fence to keep any of the neighborhhod kids out of the yard. No one has ever fallen in or gotten hurt because of his pit.

Neighbor has 1,200 cases of pyrotechnics in his garage. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Should we labeled them as harmelss dorks and ignore the POTENTIAL of a tragedy? Should I go on? Is my point taken?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
Dark humored side note.

The couple thousand rounds they found at his place they described as a "staggering" amount of ammunition. Wonder what they'd call it if they ever had reason to stumble across my humble stash. Consider

Anyway, I don't actually have anything useful to contribute to the conversation. Have a nice day.

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04-12-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
So, if someone comes to town and has a book and in that book it says that they should kill certain people, in circumstances which are not according to the law of the land, what do you say about the book? If they start circulating the book around and people start following its instructions, what do you do about the book?

Stirring up hatred against people because of their race, or because of religious beliefs or sexual orientation, in the form of making or publishing certain kinds of threatening statement is one boundary to freedom of expression and a crime.

The Koran has in it exhortations to kill people because they are apostates or because they are homosexual or Christian and to subject Christians and Jews to degrading treatment as second class citizens. That is promoting hatred.

The Reformation was about breaking the Church's hold on people and allowing individuals to read the bible and interpret it themselves. People died for this principle of religious "freedom".

What do we have today? We have a supposed religion using the rights which religious reformers fought for to impose a religion which denies individual thought and even says it is prohibited to read the Koran in one's own language. At least the Christian reformers were advocating on behalf of a religion which preached peace, not animalistic brutality.

How can rights which have been fought for so strongly for centuries in the West be abused this way without anyone taking up the fight against it? Islam is a religion which, if it appeared in the streets of your home town today, would be banned as hate propaganda.

Why was it a great thing that there was a Reformation but now we cower out of political correctness because we have to allow this hate filled cult to propagate its ideas under the cloak of freedom of religious thought?

I think there needs to be a new Reformation aimed at Islam. Muslims and Christians all need to read the hateful and inconsistent verses of the Koran so that Muslims can have the choice of saying whether they adhere to them and support killing unbelievers and gays. Christians should be aware that Islam is not like their own religion at all. Freedom of conscience and religion was not secured in the West to permit ancient blood cults to enslave us all. It was to allow individuals their freedom FROM this tyranny.

How does one start a new reformation?

Maybe the internet will be the answer. I found this video, for instance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXBgqa-xQwY

What it says is that the Koran has to be a false religion because, on the one hand, it says that the Koran is the word of Allah and therefore entirely true. But, it also says the Torah and Gospels are the word of Allah and also true. The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified at all, so this involves the Koran in an irreconcilable contradiction. Muslims have to say that the earlier works were corrupted but that makes Mohammed not a prophet. The Koran does not say Mohammed is a prophet. Muslims say that he is one because the earlier works prophesy him but if they are corrupted, and not the true word of god, then he has no credentials as a Prophet. Thus, the Koran is false, or earlier works of Allah are false, thus making the Koran false if Mohammed says Muslims should rely on them as the word of god.

One person described this as like someone needing a passport to be a Prophet but the only passport is the earlier Gospels and Torah, so if they are corrupted, and not the word of God, then Mohammed has no passport.

Then there is all the hate speech in the Koran. I think the statistics are that only about 3% of Muslims have read the Koran. Those who do, seriously, end up radicallized. A few leave the religion. Most just don't read it at all. They should be forced to read it, in their own language, and say whether they adhere to the doctrines of hate and racism in it and then they should be given a choice; leaving the cult or a deradicalization course. The book should be banned as hate literature.
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04-12-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
Here's a brave woman: https://www.google.com.cy/url?sa=t&rct=j...G-2H9FL4oQ
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