Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
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04-12-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
To those who argue that we would all be "safer" if everyone owned and carried a gun at all times: Would it make you feel "safer" if each and every country in the world had nuclear weapons?

I've managed to get through 60 years of life without ever owning a gun, or wishing I owned a gun, or regretting that I don't own any guns. It has never occurred to me that I need a gun to be safe. And I doubt that people in countries like Canada and England feel unsafe because they don't have guns. I'm starting to toy with the idea of moving to one of those countries, where people are a bit more sensible. America used to be the "home of the brave", but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It's now the home of the fear-mongers and those who bow down to them. Close the borders! Everyone arm yourselves! Because otherwise we won't be, you know, "safe".
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04-12-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
There's loads out there like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAPKYKhTp8U
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04-12-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 01:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 11:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Looks like a case of "tacti-cool." Tactical wannabe. Harmless dork. 1200 guns, all obtained legally apparently. None of them hurt anybody. Only "crime" here would be not having these firearms in a safe. That's just stupid to have them sitting in a room.

Bold above by me.

At what point would you say that someone’s actions have the potential to be harmful to themselves and others and need to be curtailed? Never?

You come across as having disassociated yourself from common sense.

Neighbor stores 1,200 cans of gasoline in his basement next to your house. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Neighbor digs a twenty foot pit in his backyard, has no fence to keep any of the neighborhhod kids out of the yard. No one has ever fallen in or gotten hurt because of his pit.

Neighbor has 1,200 cases of pyrotechnics in his garage. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Should we labeled them as harmelss dorks and ignore the POTENTIAL of a tragedy? Should I go on? Is my point taken?

Gas can explode, catch fire, or the fumes can be toxic. A hole in the ground is dangerous for obvious reasons. A gun in a locked room by itself is not dangerous. 1200 guns in a locked room are not dangerous. They don't just start shooting themselves. Now as far as ammo goes, that's a different story. Some jurisdictions have storage requirements and limitations, fire code etc. So I don't know if this guy was breaking any laws like that. But even if his house burned down, there would be no real danger. Ammo that ignites from heat will be nothing more than fireworks, because without a barrel to build pressure behind the bullet, the bullets have no power. The cases will fragment and pop at most.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-12-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
This video should go viral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAPKYKhTp8U

It is an Arab praising the West and telling the truth about how backward Arabs are.
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04-12-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
Islam is collapsing, according to a senior Hamas leader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsEdw671iv0
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04-12-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 01:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  To those who argue that we would all be "safer" if everyone owned and carried a gun at all times: Would it make you feel "safer" if each and every country in the world had nuclear weapons?

I've managed to get through 60 years of life without ever owning a gun, or wishing I owned a gun, or regretting that I don't own any guns. It has never occurred to me that I need a gun to be safe. And I doubt that people in countries like Canada and England feel unsafe because they don't have guns. I'm starting to toy with the idea of moving to one of those countries, where people are a bit more sensible. America used to be the "home of the brave", but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It's now the home of the fear-mongers and those who bow down to them. Close the borders! Everyone arm yourselves! Because otherwise we won't be, you know, "safe".

People don't need guns to kill. New York had 328 murders in 2014. London is about the size of New York in terms of population and averages 170 murders a year and they don't have guns. Keep in mind however that London only counts murders that result in conviction so unsolved homicides aren't included in that 170 per year, so they could in theory have just as many murders as New York. With NO GUNS. They just use knives and baseball bats there. Dead is dead. London also has higher assault rates. 9.5 assaults per 1000 people in London. New York with a much lower assault rate at 2.35 assaults per 1000 people.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-12-2015, 02:13 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 01:43 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 01:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Bold above by me.

At what point would you say that someone’s actions have the potential to be harmful to themselves and others and need to be curtailed? Never?

You come across as having disassociated yourself from common sense.

Neighbor stores 1,200 cans of gasoline in his basement next to your house. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Neighbor digs a twenty foot pit in his backyard, has no fence to keep any of the neighborhhod kids out of the yard. No one has ever fallen in or gotten hurt because of his pit.

Neighbor has 1,200 cases of pyrotechnics in his garage. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Should we labeled them as harmelss dorks and ignore the POTENTIAL of a tragedy? Should I go on? Is my point taken?

Gas can explode, catch fire, or the fumes can be toxic. A hole in the ground is dangerous for obvious reasons. A gun in a locked room by itself is not dangerous. 1200 guns in a locked room are not dangerous. They don't just start shooting themselves. Now as far as ammo goes, that's a different story. Some jurisdictions have storage requirements and limitations, fire code etc. So I don't know if this guy was breaking any laws like that. But even if his house burned down, there would be no real danger. Ammo that ignites from heat will be nothing more than fireworks, because without a barrel to build pressure behind the bullet, the bullets have no power. The cases will fragment and pop at most.

I hear you loud and clear, you don't have any constructive solutions and prefer to stick your head in the sand.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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04-12-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 02:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 01:43 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Gas can explode, catch fire, or the fumes can be toxic. A hole in the ground is dangerous for obvious reasons. A gun in a locked room by itself is not dangerous. 1200 guns in a locked room are not dangerous. They don't just start shooting themselves. Now as far as ammo goes, that's a different story. Some jurisdictions have storage requirements and limitations, fire code etc. So I don't know if this guy was breaking any laws like that. But even if his house burned down, there would be no real danger. Ammo that ignites from heat will be nothing more than fireworks, because without a barrel to build pressure behind the bullet, the bullets have no power. The cases will fragment and pop at most.

I hear you loud and clear, you don't have any constructive solutions and prefer to stick your head in the sand.

No. You fail to see. A gun is powerless without a human behind it.

There is no way to prevent evil. You can only attempt to defend yourself. You can ban every gun on the earth. Mad men will still make new ones. Or they'll build bombs and set them off in populated places. The largest school masacre was with a bomb, not guns. London still has murder and assault rates as high or higher than American cities and they HAVE NO GUNS. France and the surrounding countries have assault weapons bans. 138 people are dead in the Paris attacks mostly by assault weapons. Get it?

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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04-12-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 02:20 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  London still has murder and assault rates as high or higher than American cities and they HAVE NO GUNS.

This brings to mind Mark Twain's quip about "lies, damned lies, and statistics." Which American cities? In your reply to me, you compared London with New York. New York does not have the highest rates of crime, violent crime, or murder in the U.S. The last time I checked, it wasn't even in the top 20. Neither was Chicago. A more meaningful statistic would be the murder/violent crime rates for the entire country of England vs. the entire U.S. I don't know what those numbers are, but that statistic would be more meaningful than comparing one cherry-picked British city to one cherry-picked U.S. city.

NOTE: Guns are much more efficient for killing people than knives or baseball bats. Bombs are even more efficient, but they are harder to obtain -- in the U.S. at least.
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04-12-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Root Causes: San Bernardino, California shooting
(04-12-2015 01:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 11:32 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Looks like a case of "tacti-cool." Tactical wannabe. Harmless dork. 1200 guns, all obtained legally apparently. None of them hurt anybody. Only "crime" here would be not having these firearms in a safe. That's just stupid to have them sitting in a room.

Bold above by me.

At what point would you say that someone’s actions have the potential to be harmful to themselves and others and need to be curtailed? Never?

You come across as having disassociated yourself from common sense.

Neighbor stores 1,200 cans of gasoline in his basement next to your house. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Neighbor digs a twenty foot pit in his backyard, has no fence to keep any of the neighborhhod kids out of the yard. No one has ever fallen in or gotten hurt because of his pit.

Neighbor has 1,200 cases of pyrotechnics in his garage. Never had a fire or an explosion, none of them ever hurt anybody.

Should we labeled them as harmelss dorks and ignore the POTENTIAL of a tragedy? Should I go on? Is my point taken?

Those examples are not comparable. Those are dangerous in and of themselves.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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